Firearms in Forests and Parks

[MudCamper]

I just wanted to verify the info on the first two posts are still accurate since they were date marked a few years ago. As I understand it I can LCC in my campsite at Union Valley Resevoir ( USFS) and LOC while hiking trails in the area. I am non-CCW.

Thanks a million for the sticky. I seriously have a headache trying to sort out the laws. This helped immensely

The first two post are up to date. You can see the date of the last time I edited them at the bottom of the posts.

Yes LCC in your campsite on FS land no problem. LOC on trails only if shooting is not prohibited there.

[Ceeceerider71]

Tag

[scbauer]

Very glad this post exists, and I've read it multiple times over the years. Thanks, MudCamper, for keeping it up-to-date.

I have to say, even with the amazing job done to keep it up-to-date, the information is still very confusing, so I'm going to try to ask this very clearly in hopes of a simple "yes, that's legal" or "no, you can't do that" answer.

I will be going on a short 2 or 3 day backpacking trip in the Tahoe Basin National Forrest (near Mt. Tallac). I have a valid hunting license, and tree squirrel season will be open.

So, if I'm hiking with the intention of hunting, or while hiking to/from my hunting grounds, can I legally LCC? Can I legally LOC?

Also, if I have my backpack and thus sleeping bag with me, according to the definition, anytime I set my pack (and sleeping bag) down, that is considered my campground, and I am thus legal to LCC and/or LOC, right?

The plan would be to either LCC or LOC the entire time from when we leave our car (well, 150 yards after we leave the road) to when we come back to the car a few days later. With a valid hunting license in hand, do you think I'm okay to do so?

Thanks in advance!

-Scott

[Redeyedrider]

This post is a freaking God send! MudCamper Thank you for diligence on this topic (even your links are up to date). Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!

I am heading for a fishing trip in the National Forest near Sonora Pass for an extended weekend this week. My buddy owns a cabin on the river!!!! YAY ME!!!!!

I will be keeping my Glock 22 tucked away in my fishing sling pack, locked and loaded ready to rock and roll while casting my worms into the current.

Been looking forward to this trip all year

[Redeyedrider]

Very glad this post exists, and I've read it multiple times over the years. Thanks, MudCamper, for keeping it up-to-date.

I have to say, even with the amazing job done to keep it up-to-date, the information is still very confusing, so I'm going to try to ask this very clearly in hopes of a simple "yes, that's legal" or "no, you can't do that" answer.

I will be going on a short 2 or 3 day backpacking trip in the Tahoe Basin National Forrest (near Mt. Tallac). I have a valid hunting license, and tree squirrel season will be open.

So, if I'm hiking with the intention of hunting, or while hiking to/from my hunting grounds, can I legally LCC? Can I legally LOC?

Also, if I have my backpack and thus sleeping bag with me, according to the definition, anytime I set my pack (and sleeping bag) down, that is considered my campground, and I am thus legal to LCC and/or LOC, right?

The plan would be to either LCC or LOC the entire time from when we leave our car (well, 150 yards after we leave the road) to when we come back to the car a few days later. With a valid hunting license in hand, do you think I'm okay to do so?

Thanks in advance!

-Scott

My understanding is:

You're on a "hunting expedition" and a "licensed hunter"..... PC25640 would apply. You should be good to go LCC or LOC (your choice). As long as you are in an are where shooting is not prohibited (school zone, ect....)

[R0DE0]

Hey everybody,

First post so please be gentle. Thank you MudCamper for putting together all of this information, it is really a useful tool when trying to figure out if you're going to be breaking one of these stupid laws or not.

I have read through pretty much the entire thread and I'm still a little foggy on a few things, and hoping someone can clear things up for me.

This weekend, I plan on going up through Sly Park to Mormon Emigrant Trail (I am sure a few of you are familiar with the road) and into national forest land to do some late night Milky Way photography. Normally, this is one of the areas I would go to plink. Now, for fear of getting mauled by a mountain lion while I'm out there by myself, I would like to bring my S&W .357 Mag with me. I don't necessarily need to have it on my hip, but within arm's reach would be nice, maybe on top of my car or attached to my camera tripod. I would be going up there, finding an open area off the main road, and that's where I would setup to take pictures.

There are so many laws to consider, and most of which outweigh another, that I really don't know what I can and cannot do. If I get rolled up on by a USFS Ranger, DFW Warden, or Placer County Sheriff in the middle of the night and the middle of nowhere, it's already going to look suspicious. So what am I legally allowed to do?

Thank in advance to anyone who responds.

[NVPic]

I'd like to thank MudCamper for his exhaustive work in this area. I live just over the border in Nevada and spend much of my time outdoors in Alpine County among others on the east slope. He's the de facto authority on the subject in my opinion.

[AGGRO]

Ok, read through the whole thing and I'm not quite sure still. We were coming out of a campground in Cleveland National and a forest service employee said carrying a handgun in camp was a 2000 dollar fine. I think they are full of it but I'm doing research before I call their main office. This was a free campground near black Mt and it is national forest.

We've hunted out of free campgrounds in McCain, near Laguna, all over and we've always had loaded handguns in camp. Thoughts?

I think some other camper whined and they are just trying to appease everyone.

[norfizzle]

Mudcamper, thanks for putting this together, what an awesome resource!

As others have mentioned, CA really makes it confusing for everyone. My question regards Army Corps of Engineers land:
While the first post links to a court decision striking down the ban on firearms on ACE land, I found another link from 4/2016 saying a new judge had upheld the ban.

What say anyone on this matter? I'm heading to ACE land this weekend and would like to have a handgun with me for wild animal safety.

[WartHog]

My Brother & I and our small dog regularly boat-in camp at Lake Sonoma which is controlled by ACE. Mountain Lions, Coyotes, Wild Pigs, and occasionally Black Bear are sighted there. We don't shoot while camping but we do bring a couple of M&P 9mm's and a Mossberg 500 12ga loaded with slugs/buckshot, just in case. I actually had to put down an adult pig we came across there earlier this year. Had a broken, infected leg that was swollen up like a balloon.

F**k their stupid rules.

[MudCamper]

Sorry I haven't visited this thread in some time. I am too late to answer these questions in a timely manner, but will try and answer them for future reference anyway.

I will be going on a short 2 or 3 day backpacking trip in the Tahoe Basin National Forrest (near Mt. Tallac). I have a valid hunting license, and tree squirrel season will be open.

So, if I'm hiking with the intention of hunting, or while hiking to/from my hunting grounds, can I legally LCC? Can I legally LOC?

If you are actually hunting, you can LCC or LOC. But if you are just traveling to/from you can only UCC. So if while you are hiking, you are looking for game to shoot, yes that is hunting and you can LCC or LOC.

Also, if I have my backpack and thus sleeping bag with me, according to the definition, anytime I set my pack (and sleeping bag) down, that is considered my campground, and I am thus legal to LCC and/or LOC, right?

I'm not an attorney. I can't give legal advice. But IMO that is pushing it. I have found some actual definitions of campsites which would clearly grant you the exemptions, but your definition there I wouldn't count on. But if you use the hunting exemption you are already good to go.

The plan would be to either LCC or LOC the entire time from when we leave our car (well, 150 yards after we leave the road) to when we come back to the car a few days later. With a valid hunting license in hand, do you think I'm okay to do so?

That is how I often do it. So I'd say yes. But remember, the LEO out there won't be familiar with the subtleties of the law. Be prepared to explain them, or carry a printout.

This weekend, I plan on going up through Sly Park to Mormon Emigrant Trail (I am sure a few of you are familiar with the road) and into national forest land to do some late night Milky Way photography. Normally, this is one of the areas I would go to plink. Now, for fear of getting mauled by a mountain lion while I'm out there by myself, I would like to bring my S&W .357 Mag with me. I don't necessarily need to have it on my hip, but within arm's reach would be nice, maybe on top of my car or attached to my camera tripod. I would be going up there, finding an open area off the main road, and that's where I would setup to take pictures.

There are so many laws to consider, and most of which outweigh another, that I really don't know what I can and cannot do. If I get rolled up on by a USFS Ranger, DFW Warden, or Placer County Sheriff in the middle of the night and the middle of nowhere, it's already going to look suspicious. So what am I legally allowed to do?

I'm not clear on your scenario. Do you mean you will always be in or next to your car, and therefore on a public road? If that is the case, then you can't load nor carry legally. Best you could do is keep the revolver and a speed loader in a quick-open locked case on the car seat.

Ok, read through the whole thing and I'm not quite sure still. We were coming out of a campground in Cleveland National and a forest service employee said carrying a handgun in camp was a 2000 dollar fine. I think they are full of it but I'm doing research before I call their main office. This was a free campground near black Mt and it is national forest.

We've hunted out of free campgrounds in McCain, near Laguna, all over and we've always had loaded handguns in camp. Thoughts?

I think some other camper whined and they are just trying to appease everyone.

Everyone is confusing campground with campsite. They are not the same thing.

Your campsite is yours - your tent and campfire and immediate area. It is like your home for the gun law exceptions.

Your campsite may be within a public campground, with many campsites and roads and public toilets. You cannot carry anywhere in the campground but your own campsite.

Now if you also have a hunting license, you've got that extra exemption, so you could UCC through the campground on your way to/from your campsite.

And watch out for the lead ammo ban if you are relying on the hunting exemption for your carry.

Yes it's all insanely confusing. We are relying on less and less legal means every year. Hopefully Peruta makes it to SCOTUS, and we can all just get CCW permits.

[MudCamper]

Mudcamper, thanks for putting this together, what an awesome resource!

As others have mentioned, CA really makes it confusing for everyone. My question regards Army Corps of Engineers land:
While the first post links to a court decision striking down the ban on firearms on ACE land, I found another link from 4/2016 saying a new judge had upheld the ban.

What say anyone on this matter? I'm heading to ACE land this weekend and would like to have a handgun with me for wild animal safety.

Thank you norfizzle.

I am still searching for the latest status. But in the mean time I will alter this thread back to NO GO on ACE land to be safe.

The initial enjoining order in our favor

OK it appears that that win has been limited in scope to the state of Idaho only. The case continues, but the name has changed.

Nesbitt (formerly Morris) v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers - 9th Circuit Court of Appeals Case No. 14-36049

Michel had a status page on it, but hasn't updated it in a while:

http://michellawyers.com/morris-v-u-s-army-corps-of-engineers/

Stumbled on this blog that looks to contain good info:

http://blog.californiarighttocarry.org/?page_id=1634

Will report back as I learn more...

[smith and wesson]

Just get a CCW permit and keep it concealed.

I live in la county.

Thanks all for the info

[Lawrencemm90]

National Park

Hello I am going to be backpacking this spring in Yosemite National Park and was wondering if it would be legal to carry my firearm (1911) as we walk the trails whether it's in a holster unloaded and just keep a magazine loaded separately or if it would be illegal. We will be hiking for multiple days and setting up tents as we need at night with the proper permits. I can legally own a firearm in California and am an armed guard but do not have a CCW due to living in Santa Clara County where even after selling your soul you'll still get denied.

[Southwest Chuck]

Mudcamper, thanks for putting this together, what an awesome resource!

As others have mentioned, CA really makes it confusing for everyone. My question regards Army Corps of Engineers land:
While the first post links to a court decision striking down the ban on firearms on ACE land, I found another link from 4/2016 saying a new judge had upheld the ban.

What say anyone on this matter? I'm heading to ACE land this weekend and would like to have a handgun with me for wild animal safety.

Thank you norfizzle.

I am still searching for the latest status. But in the mean time I will alter this thread back to NO GO on ACE land to be safe.

The initial enjoining order in our favor

OK it appears that that win has been limited in scope to the state of Idaho only. The case continues, but the name has changed.

Nesbitt (formerly Morris) v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers - 9th Circuit Court of Appeals Case No. 14-36049

Michel had a status page on it, but hasn't updated it in a while:

http://michellawyers.com/morris-v-u-s-army-corps-of-engineers/

Stumbled on this blog that looks to contain good info:

http://blog.californiarighttocarry.org/?page_id=1634

Will report back as I learn more...

UPDATE:
Oral arguments were suspended in this case. It seems the parties have entered negotiations to settle the case. The proposal is to treat ACE Lands just like National Parks are treated as far as firearms are concerned (through the credit car act that Obama signed). Here is a link from just published article from David Kopel on the Status of the case.
Second Amendment may be restored on Army Corps of Engineers land

The 9th Circuit case was ready for oral argument on March 6. But on March 2, the Corps filed a request to remove the oral argument from the calendar and to put the case into mediation. The motion explained: “The Army Corps of Engineers is reconsidering the firearms policy challenged in this case, as well as plaintiffs’ requests for permission to carry firearms on Army Corps property. This reconsideration has the potential to fully resolve plaintiffs’ objections.”

After it's firmed up and submitted to the court or approval, you' be able to update your original post with some good news, Mudcamper

On a side note, it's my personal opinion that many such cases that are in the pipeline across the country are being settled due the results of our recent Presidential Election and the appointment of a more Rights oriented Attorney General. This is a GOOD thing IMO . YMMV ....