Firearms in Forests and Parks

[border.bandito]

ok, i've read pretty much this entire thread and while i am very very grateful for the effort and time invested into it...i'm even more confused than i ever was (thanks CA )

basically i do a lot of hiking (solo and with my son as well) in the local mountains which i believe fall on either national forest or blm land (pretty certain no state or national park).

so if i'm understanding this correctly, as long as i stay within cleveland national forest (or any national forest for that matter) or on blm land, then i can LOC (loaded open carry; i.e. with a full mag in the firearm and a round chambered) pretty much the entire time i'm on that property (literally from when i get out of my car to the time i get back in).

now the minute i step onto a national park, then i can only LOC in my campsite.

and if i'm in a state park, i might as well just carry some spitwads and a straw

[Dirtridersr]

Same question as above^ I'm going backpacking in a couple weeks up in lake Sabrina which I believe is a national forest, and I wanted to bring my s&w sd9 so from what I read I am allowed to bring it? I'm just not sure if I can UOC LOC UCC LCC? I'd like to just put in my backpack with a couple mags but locking it up is not really a big deal to me, just wondering what I can a cant do. Thanks

[Catalyst81]

ok, i've read pretty much this entire thread and while i am very very grateful for the effort and time invested into it...i'm even more confused than i ever was (thanks CA )

basically i do a lot of hiking (solo and with my son as well) in the local mountains which i believe fall on either national forest or blm land (pretty certain no state or national park).

so if i'm understanding this correctly, as long as i stay within cleveland national forest (or any national forest for that matter) or on blm land, then i can LOC (loaded open carry; i.e. with a full mag in the firearm and a round chambered) pretty much the entire time i'm on that property (literally from when i get out of my car to the time i get back in).

now the minute i step onto a national park, then i can only LOC in my campsite.

and if i'm in a state park, i might as well just carry some spitwads and a straw

Generally true but not so in the case of Cleveland National Forest if I understand this post correctly since shooting is prohibited. If you look at A17 on the Cleveland National Forest's webiste here you'll see that shooting is prohibited in all of Cleveland National Forest. Per MudCamper, in the post I referenced, you would be able to do the following: "So in these particular forests, you cannot UOC or LOC (nor LCC without an LTC). But you can LUCC. And you can UOC, LOC, and LCC in your campsite. These exemptions are unimpeded by the "prohibited area" language in the laws."

What some people do to get around this is get a hunting license. This allows you to UOC while hunting and while traveling to/from hunting expeditions (PC 26366) - you can hunt coyotes year round with a handgun.

[Catalyst81]

Same question as above^ I'm going backpacking in a couple weeks up in lake Sabrina which I believe is a national forest, and I wanted to bring my s&w sd9 so from what I read I am allowed to bring it? I'm just not sure if I can UOC LOC UCC LCC? I'd like to just put in my backpack with a couple mags but locking it up is not really a big deal to me, just wondering what I can a cant do. Thanks

It's so confusing! You should be able to LUCC. And you can UOC, LOC, and LCC in your campsite. If there is not a blanket prohibition to shoot in Inyo National Forest (Location of Lake Sabrina), then you should also be able to LOC and UOC so long as shooting is not prohibited in the area you are at. (all of this is based off the information provided on the first page - double check for accuracy)

[MudCamper]

so if i'm understanding this correctly, as long as i stay within cleveland national forest (or any national forest for that matter) or on blm land, then i can LOC (loaded open carry; i.e. with a full mag in the firearm and a round chambered) pretty much the entire time i'm on that property (literally from when i get out of my car to the time i get back in).

Not exactly. All state laws apply while on federal lands. California PC 25850 (formerly 12031) makes it illegal to load a firearm anywhere where shooting is prohibited. So technically you should not load anywhere in the NF/BLM where shooting is prohibited.

So technically, when you step out of your car, you may be on a road, or on a parking lot (possibly a developed area), where in NF/BLM shooting is prohibited, so this could in turn trigger 25850/12031 and make loading illegal, until you stop off the road / parking lot.

This is a bit absurd, and I am convinced it is not the original intent of the law, but it is quite possible that you could encounter an anti-gun over-zealous LEO who could decide to cite you. While not probable, it is possible.

Now further complicating this is the idiotic unloaded open carry handgun ban, PC 26350. However, it does contain the following exception:

26388. Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open carrying of an unloaded handgun on publicly owned land, if the possession and use of a handgun is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land and the person carrying that handgun is in lawful possession of that handgun.

So I choose to reasonably assume that since firearms are allowed on these lands, that I can carry my unloaded handgun off the parking lot / road. (Not everyone agrees with me.)

But I am not an attorney, and cannot offer legal advice, only my interpretation.

All this insanity is why some of us (myself included) have taken to always carrying a hunting license, which has additional exceptions to these idiotic laws. However, next year, even that will be further complicated when the lead ammo ban goes into effect state wide.

What some people do to get around this is get a hunting license. This allows you to UOC while hunting and while traveling to/from hunting expeditions (PC 26366) - you can hunt coyotes year round with a handgun.

And jack rabbit I believe. But if hunting and target shooting are both prohibited, it would seem to me that you can't use the hunting exceptions...

And of course, if you have a CCW, most of this silliness doesn't apply to you, and you are good to go, LCC.

My point of this thread was to clarify exactly what condition the laws create. It has gotten really complicated as more and more laws get passed. The reality on the ground may actually be more lenient, depending on your area and local rangers. But in some cases, particularly on BLM, the LEO can be pretty horrible about being anti-gun, so that's why I always follow the letter of the law, despite what a non-anti-gun ranger might say.

[Catalyst81]

All this insanity is why some of us (myself included) have taken to always carrying a hunting license, which has additional exceptions to these idiotic laws. However, next year, even that will be further complicated when the lead ammo ban goes into effect state wide.

This may be pushing it but from the text of the bill its seems you could technically not be in violation of the law and be "hunting" with lead ammo so long as you don't "take" any game with it. Or just take non lead ammo with you if you're worried about it.

It is crazy how complicated these laws get as the legislature keeps piling them on.

[HMGHUNTER]

I have a question that involves carrying lead ammo for protection while hunting. I read the first page but it doesn't seem to cover anything about lead ammo.

Scenerio:
I will be hunting this weekend in the Sierra National Forest, near Wishon Reservoir. AFAIK this area is not prohibited. My primary weapon will be a .22lr rifle. I know lead ammo isn't banned for small game yet so I'm good on that. However this is bear country and I want to carry a pistol for personal protection. I had a pretty close encounter last year. I already have high quality lead based rounds and really don't want to have to buy expensive non-lead ones. The pistol will not be fired unless absolutely needed.

Question:
So my concern is, can I have in my possession lead pistol ammo while hunting (not used for hunting) for protection purposes only?

I'm a bit concern with this statement from the DFW website:

Effective July 1, 2008, all big-game and non-game hunters within this area (Lead-Free Ammunition area link below) are required to use lead-free ammunition. In addition, while hunting in this area hunters may not possess any lead projectiles/ammunition and a firearm capable of firing that lead projectile or ammunition.

[6789boat]

It appears that we cannot UOC when traveling to or from a fishing location, However we can UOC traveling to or from a hunting destination, is this correct?

Also, it appears that a trigger lock on a pistol/revolver DOES NOT satisfy the requirement that a piste/revolver be transported in a LOCKED CONTAINER.

Please comment, thanks.

[Jcruze]

Tahoe Basin shooting and open carry

I've read a few threads that said shooting in Tahoe basin is illegal but after reading this link it appears that it actually is legal.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/ltbmu/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5412380

Could anyone confirm this?

Thanks!

[jbzshot]

I am new to these forums, so hi to everyone. I have a questions regarding a recent citation I received for discharging a firearm during fire season, 36 cfr 261.58 (m). The day we came out it was raining, and the ground was saturated, so we thought we were safe to shoot. We did not see any signs restricting target shooting on the way there. The place we were shooting was an area that was recommended to me by a forestry service officer. That same officer was the guy who cited us. A fish and game officer came up to us first to check to see what we were doing, but couldn't tell us if what we were doing was okay or not, and he left. 15 minutes later the FS guy pulled up.

This is actually quite a long story so I will make it short. After we got cited we packed up our stuff and left, and checked for signs on the way back down the road. There actually was one 8" x !0" sign that we didn't see, but it also was only 2/3 visible, and it was raining with poor visibility. This happened on Pozo Rd. out of Santa Margarita.

Has anyone ever had this happen to them, and would it be wise to fight it?

[Catalyst81]

I am new to these forums, so hi to everyone. I have a questions regarding a recent citation I received for discharging a firearm during fire season, 36 cfr 261.58 (m). The day we came out it was raining, and the ground was saturated, so we thought we were safe to shoot. We did not see any signs restricting target shooting on the way there. The place we were shooting was an area that was recommended to me by a forestry service officer. That same officer was the guy who cited us. A fish and game officer came up to us first to check to see what we were doing, but couldn't tell us if what we were doing was okay or not, and he left. 15 minutes later the FS guy pulled up.

This is actually quite a long story so I will make it short. After we got cited we packed up our stuff and left, and checked for signs on the way back down the road. There actually was one 8" x !0" sign that we didn't see, but it also was only 2/3 visible, and it was raining with poor visibility. This happened on Pozo Rd. out of Santa Margarita.

Has anyone ever had this happen to them, and would it be wise to fight it?

You get a picture of the sign being partially covered? If it was mostly visible you're probably out of like. Doesn't really matter that it was raining. It never hurts to fight a citation but you'll most likely end up paying it.

[KrisDSA]

Tagged for later

[MudCamper]

This may be pushing it but from the text of the bill its seems you could technically not be in violation of the law and be "hunting" with lead ammo so long as you don't "take" any game with it. Or just take non lead ammo with you if you're worried about it.

I have a question that involves carrying lead ammo for protection while hunting. I read the first page but it doesn't seem to cover anything about lead ammo.

DFG has a long and sordid history of overreaching in this regard. They will misinterpret the law in the way which will be most oppressive. So best practice would be to use non-lead ammo in your self-defense firearm as well.

[MudCamper]

I've read a few threads that said shooting in Tahoe basin is illegal but after reading this link it appears that it actually is legal.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/ltbmu/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5412380

Could anyone confirm this?

Thanks!

I agree with your conclusion, that it is legal.

[MudCamper]

I am new to these forums, so hi to everyone. I have a questions regarding a recent citation I received for discharging a firearm during fire season, 36 cfr 261.58 (m). The day we came out it was raining, and the ground was saturated, so we thought we were safe to shoot. We did not see any signs restricting target shooting on the way there. The place we were shooting was an area that was recommended to me by a forestry service officer. That same officer was the guy who cited us. A fish and game officer came up to us first to check to see what we were doing, but couldn't tell us if what we were doing was okay or not, and he left. 15 minutes later the FS guy pulled up.

This is actually quite a long story so I will make it short. After we got cited we packed up our stuff and left, and checked for signs on the way back down the road. There actually was one 8" x !0" sign that we didn't see, but it also was only 2/3 visible, and it was raining with poor visibility. This happened on Pozo Rd. out of Santa Margarita.

Has anyone ever had this happen to them, and would it be wise to fight it?

I realize that I am too late to answer this, but I will anyway.

If I were you, I would fight it. And by that I mean I would show up in court and politely argue my case in a reasonable manner. The law requires that they post these types of closures, and if you couldn't see the sign, a reasonable judge might be understanding, particularly given the conflicting information you were given. See :

However, you'll have to argue this in a federal court, which may far enough away not to be worth bothering.