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  #321  
Old 07-28-2011, 6:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalifornian View Post
Its hard to figure why you feel the need for a concealed weapon in a family campground.
Perhaps to protect your family? Duh.
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  #322  
Old 07-28-2011, 7:05 PM
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QUOTE=Taggart;6859086]Perhaps to protect your family? Duh.[/QUOTE]

common sense is what it is all about, a family campground is just that, you don't need a open carried or concealed weapon in a family campground area, (but i usually have a sidearm available locked up in the truck if absolutely needed)
off the beaten trail with your family is a different story, and i do exercise that right to have a handgun readily and instantly avaliable when semi remote or remote camping, with or without the family.
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  #323  
Old 07-28-2011, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by santacruzpaul View Post
QUOTE=Taggart;6859086]Perhaps to protect your family? Duh.
common sense is what it is all about, a family campground is just that, you don't need a open carried or concealed weapon in a family campground area, (but i usually have a sidearm available locked up in the truck if absolutely needed)
off the beaten trail with your family is a different story, and i do exercise that right to have a handgun readily and instantly avaliable when semi remote or remote camping, with or without the family.
Paul[/QUOTE]

Just like they didn't need firearms on that island in Norway either, right?

And Virginia Tech didn't need firearms there, because it's a learning environment.

Honestly, who cares what the "environment" is. It's a constitutional right to be armed. If I'm out camping, I may want to carry just because you never know what's around the corner. Wackos go all over the place, and so do wild animals. If you want a sterile family environment free from firearms, stay home with your TV off.
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  #324  
Old 07-28-2011, 8:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santacruzpaul View Post
common sense is what it is all about, a family campground is just that, you don't need a open carried or concealed weapon in a family campground area, (but i usually have a sidearm available locked up in the truck if absolutely needed)
off the beaten trail with your family is a different story, and i do exercise that right to have a handgun readily and instantly avaliable when semi remote or remote camping, with or without the family.
Paul
Your common sense is a little different than mine. I'd feel the most need for a firearm in a "family" campground. I've seen those places attract all sorts, and frankly the only species I've ever had any trouble with in any campground or out on the trail is homo sapiens.
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  #325  
Old 07-28-2011, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kalifornian View Post
Any suggestions on who to contact to bring them up to speed with the new law? We are planning on a camping trip in the near future and would want to be sure that I stay within the law.
IMO it's never a good idea to tell LEO what the law is. They tend to get pissed off about that. Just educate yourself and be sure you stay within the law. You may be interested in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by santacruzpaul View Post
common sense is what it is all about, a family campground is just that, you don't need a open carried or concealed weapon in a family campground area, (but i usually have a sidearm available locked up in the truck if absolutely needed) off the beaten trail with your family is a different story, and i do exercise that right to have a handgun readily and instantly avaliable when semi remote or remote camping, with or without the family.
Strange and flawed logic. If my family is with me, I'm even more motivated to carry, to protect them. And the more people there are in a campground, the more likely you are to have some kind of human predator lurking within them. An attack by a sociopath won't happen on a convenient schedule or where you'd prefer it.

Last edited by MudCamper; 07-28-2011 at 8:38 PM..
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  #326  
Old 07-29-2011, 9:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
IMO it's never a good idea to tell LEO what the law is. They tend to get pissed off about that. Just educate yourself and be sure you stay within the law. You may be interested in this thread.


Strange and flawed logic. If my family is with me, I'm even more motivated to carry, to protect them. And the more people there are in a campground, the more likely you are to have some kind of human predator lurking within them. An attack by a sociopath won't happen on a convenient schedule or where you'd prefer it.
Thanks MC. Good advice. Bookmarked the thread.

My feelings exactly. Chula Vista campgrounds at the Los Padres National Forest is considered a "Family" campground. You have to pack it in and pack it out; no motorized vehicles allowed. In the past, it was safer and more "wholesome." Not any more. We have encountered campsites that were more drinking parties than family camping.
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  #327  
Old 07-29-2011, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Kalifornian View Post
In the past, it was safer and more "wholesome." Not any more. We have encountered campsites that were more drinking parties than family camping.
This is a problem that I see happening more and more everywhere in developed campgrounds, particularly in the NF where there is little Ranger activity. There's a spring-break-party mentality taking over. It's a big part of the reason I search out and purchased some remote rural land a few years ago. If it's mine, I can keep all the idiots out.
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  #328  
Old 08-02-2011, 12:58 PM
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I'm trying to find where the USDA / National Forest service (specifically the Tahoe national forest)

Where it says:


*2 - Unloaded Open Carry is legal almost everywhere in these lands
*2 - Loaded Open Carry is legal in areas where shooting is not prohibited, and in one's campsite (12031 et al)
*2 - Shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site, or on/across a road or body of water
*2 - Forest administrators have the authority to prohibit shooting in other areas of the NF but must post this information
*2 - BLM administrators may post closures and restrictions regarding firearms use
*2 - Loaded Concealed Carry is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while hunting/fishing, and only where shooting is not prohibited
*2 - Unloaded Concealed Carry is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while traveling to/from hunting/fishing trips
*2 - CA CCW permit holders may carry loaded and concealed.

I'm going camping and would like to know if there is an official rulebook or website that lists these rules.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
"Can I possess/carry my handgun/rifle/shotgun openly/loaded/concealed/otherwise when I am hiking/camping/hunting/other in the forest/park/campground/wilderness in California?"

We see questions like this often. This thread is meant to address them.

First, understand that there are many different types of "forests" and "parks" and they are all run by different government agencies with different regulations.

Here is a list of the most common types of parks, forests, and public lands, and their respective firearms restrictions:

- National Parks, Federal, National Park Service, US Department of the Interior - firearms now permitted but CA state law applies *1
- National Forests, Federal, US Forest Service, US Department of Agriculture - firearms and shooting welcomed but CA state law applies *2
- BLM Land, Federal, Bureau of Land Management, US Department of the Interior - firearms and shooting permitted but CA state law applies *2
- State Parks, State, California Department of Parks and Recreation - firearms prohibited *3
- Regional Parks, some are county owned (example), some are city owned - firearms often prohibited per local ordinance findlaw.com municode.com


*1 - The firearms prohibition in NPs and NWRs was lifted on 2/22/10. See the "Important Notes" about HR 267 in the second post in this thread.
*1 - Unloaded Open Carry is legal except in federal facilities (buildings with federal employees and no-firearms signs posted)
*1 - Loaded Open Carry is legal in one's campsite.
*1 - Since NPs can be near/within urban areas, school zones can be an issue. Unlocked/operable firearms are not allowed within 1000 feet of a K-12 school.
*1 - CA CCW permit holders may carry loaded and concealed, except in federal facilities.

*2 - Unloaded Open Carry is legal almost everywhere in these lands
*2 - Loaded Open Carry is legal in areas where shooting is not prohibited, and in one's campsite (12031 et al)
*2 - Shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site, or on/across a road or body of water
*2 - Forest administrators have the authority to prohibit shooting in other areas of the NF but must post this information
*2 - BLM administrators may post closures and restrictions regarding firearms use
*2 - Loaded Concealed Carry is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while hunting/fishing, and only where shooting is not prohibited
*2 - Unloaded Concealed Carry is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while traveling to/from hunting/fishing trips
*2 - CA CCW permit holders may carry loaded and concealed.

*3 - firearms permitted in vehicles and temporary lodgings when unloaded and "packed, cased or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use"
*3 - CA CCW permit holders may apparently carry firearms in California State Parks


Additional types of public lands:

- Wilderness Areas, Federal, within or part of a National Park - firearms now permitted but CA state law applies *1
- Wilderness Areas, Federal, within or part of a National Forest - shooting and/or possession may be prohibited, check with local ranger station
- National Monuments, Federal, various agencies but usually the NPS - firearms now permitted but CA state law applies *1
- National Wildlife Refuges, Federal, US Fish and Wildlife Service, US Department of the Interior - firearms now permitted but CA state law applies *1
- US Army Corp of Engineers Recreation Areas (SF, Sac, LA) - firearms generally prohibited except for limited hunting activities
- DFG Wildlife Areas and Reserves, State, California Department of Fish & Game - firearms restrictions vary (usually very prohibitive)
- Demonstration State Forests, State, California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CDF / CAL Fire) - firearms permitted, some restrictions - (details)
- PG&E Recreation Areas - no official restrictions, generally the same as neighboring federal lands, state laws apply (details)
- Private lands and privately owned campgrounds - firearms either permitted or restricted by the owner, but enforceable only with trespass laws
- Open Space Districts (a form of CA Special District) - unknow, TBD
- Land Trusts - unknown, TBD


This thread's focus is on parks/forests/campgrounds/etc. in California. Not all of the specifics and subtleties of carry, loaded, and transport laws are covered here. So,

- For more information about open carry, see the Open Carry FAQ.
- For specifics about carry and transport laws, see the California Carry and Transport Flyer.
- For details about the definitions of loaded, see What is Loaded in California.

Except where otherwise specified, this thread information is primarily for people who do not hold a CA CCW permit.

The first three posts in this thread will be continually updated for accuracy.

If you ever suffer any harassment while legally using firearms or receive incorrect legal information from any NF or BLM LEO, please report it using the form posted here.

Additional PDF documents that may be useful to carry with you are linked here.

There is now a shortened URL for this thread: tinyurl.com/fifap
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  #329  
Old 08-02-2011, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeddreamz View Post
I'm trying to find where the National Forest service (specifically the Tahoe national forest)

...

I'm going camping and would like to know if there is an official rulebook or website that lists these rules.
This thread is as close as you are going to find on that.

Typically laws tell you want you cannot do, not what you can do. So if it's not prohibited, it's allowed. You aren't going to find a government permission slip. You've got to figure out where the legal lines are and then not cross them.

As for a general overview about how the FS is with regard to firearms, there is this web page linked in the first post of this thread.

For a list of all applicable laws, see the second post in this thread. And I include links to the full texts if you want to see them.

If you want to better understand why open carry is legal, read the flyer I linked in the first post.
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  #330  
Old 08-11-2011, 5:17 PM
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Default Carrying from Chantry Flats to Spruce Grove

I'm going hiking with my son, starting from Chantry Flats and heading into Spruce Grove (via the Sturtevant Falls trail) where we'll camp overnight, then hike back out via the Mt. Zion trail.

I'm not terribly concerned about predators, at least not the 4-legged kind, and on a Friday night I'm also not overly concerned about the 2-legged variety either. But better to have it and not need it...

Now I believe that Angeles National Forest, being a National Forest and having the website http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles , is a Federal Park, thus it should be legal for me to open carry my unloaded 96G from the parking lot at Chantry Flats to Spruce Grove.

Once my son and I set up camp at Spruce Grove I believe I may then openly carry my loaded pistol but ONLY while within 'our' specific campsite.

If either my son or I need to make like a 'bear in the woods' and leave our campsite, it's my understanding that I should then unload and openly carry, as I should do for the return trip to Chantry Flats.

Is that all correct?

One last thing. If I was reluctant to openly carry my unloaded pistol on the hike in & out, would it be legal to carry my unloaded and locked pistol in my backpack? That's locked as in with an actual lock, not 'lock & load'.

Or would that be considered concealed carry and thus illegal? Okay, I think as per PC 12025 (a) (2) carrying an unloaded, locked pistol in my pack would still be construed as 'concealed carry' and thus illegal.

Additional question, what if the pistol is unloaded and locked in its carrying case which is being carried in my hand, not in my pack? I think I know the answer. Give the government an inch and they'll lock you up for life. Unloaded open carry it is.

Thanks for any & all advice.

P.S. I don't plan to actually shoot anything, then again, life doesn't always go as planned. I figure if we are threatened by anything a warning shot should suffice, and if not, well, my Dad used to say, "Never point a gun at anything unless you figure on putting a hole in it."
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Last edited by CapnJohn; 08-11-2011 at 8:12 PM..
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  #331  
Old 08-11-2011, 6:00 PM
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It seems pretty clear you may be ok. Just lock it into a locked container for transport or display it openly (unloaded). Once at your campsite and in your tent you are ok. Bring bear mace or some sort of bear first defense so you can 'claim' you had no choice.

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  #332  
Old 08-11-2011, 9:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnJohn View Post
Now I believe that Angeles National Forest, being a National Forest and having the website http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles , is a Federal Park, ...
Not sure why you think this is significant, but the National Forest is NOT a park. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ational_Forest. Note that Angeles National Forest was the very first and oldest.

Enjoy your hike, that is a pretty area.

Last edited by Taggart; 08-11-2011 at 9:58 PM..
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  #333  
Old 08-15-2011, 8:29 AM
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  #334  
Old 08-25-2011, 9:06 PM
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Holy crap what a cluster f*^k of state and federal laws...

So I decided to take my son hiking tomorrow at the San Bernardino National Forest.

From what I read, I can UOC my pistol anywhere there (except in federal buildings) and I should be good to go? State law being the lowest common denominator...

Yes...no?

Thanks all.
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  #335  
Old 08-29-2011, 6:18 PM
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from what im reading it should be ok to open loaded carry almost everywhere on the BLM land out near randsburg. now how bout when were riding around on the ATVs? since were on an off highway vehicle and strictly riding trails and threw the bush i take it should be ok?
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  #336  
Old 08-30-2011, 7:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Cashrip View Post
from what im reading it should be ok to open loaded carry almost everywhere on the BLM land out near randsburg. now how bout when were riding around on the ATVs? since were on an off highway vehicle and strictly riding trails and threw the bush i take it should be ok?
Yes, that is generally legal. See here and here for background and exceptions. A few excerpts from those posts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyGuy View Post
The difference is that some are roads and some are trails. This isn't an arbitrary determination based on the quality of the route. The forest service is required to designate each route as either a Road or a Trail. This designation process is still ongoing in some forests. For example, Eldorado has completed the process while Tahoe has not yet issued it's final designations.

For "roads", see the info above and decide for yourself which interpretation is correct. For "trails", loaded carry is permitted. Note that forest service regulations also prohibit discharge from a number of other locations, such as when within 150 yards of a campsite. So if you are driving down a trail and come within range of such a campsite, the 'prohibited area' language in 12031 would be triggered and carrying loaded would then be prohibited (unless you prefer the alternate interpretation that MudCamper provided).
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyGuy View Post
Combining all that together plus 12027(g), I choose to believe that it is legal for me to have a concealed, loaded and chambered handgun while hunting (I have a hunting license) on a national forest road, even if I am in a vehicle. I further believe that I can LOC while on that road even if I'm not hunting. Others can choose to believe whatever they want, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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  #337  
Old 10-01-2011, 2:48 PM
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Can we clarify the bold in the first post? this is a hunting or fishing license NOT a concealed carry license right?

*2 - Loaded Concealed Carry is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while hunting/fishing, and only where shooting is not prohibited
*2 - Unloaded Concealed Carry is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while traveling to/from hunting/fishing trips
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  #338  
Old 10-01-2011, 7:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklyte27 View Post
Can we clarify the bold in the first post? this is a hunting or fishing license NOT a concealed carry license right?

*2 - Loaded Concealed Carry is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while hunting/fishing, and only where shooting is not prohibited
*2 - Unloaded Concealed Carry is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while traveling to/from hunting/fishing trips
Correct, nothing todo with ccw/ltc - there are lots of exemptions to unlawful ccw. See PCs 12025-12027
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  #339  
Old 10-10-2011, 12:57 AM
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FYI to anyone reading this thread prior to getting updated. Jerry Brown just signed AB144, the unloaded open carry ban, into law 2 hours ago. Any reference in this thread to legal unloaded open carry is very likely now a crime.
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  #340  
Old 10-10-2011, 1:13 AM
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FYI to anyone reading this thread prior to getting updated. Jerry Brown just signed AB144, the unloaded open carry ban, into law 2 hours ago. Any reference in this thread to legal unloaded open carry is very likely now a crime.
No, but it will be after the new year.
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  #341  
Old 10-10-2011, 6:05 AM
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No, but it will be after the new year.
Ahh good catch. Last night this thread below was reporting the law took effect immediately.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=486947
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  #342  
Old 10-10-2011, 12:25 PM
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I think one of the exceptions in the law will still allow us to UOC in most NF, BLM, NP, etc. I will be looking into that soon and posting updates in the thread. And of course, anywhere where LOC was legal, it still is.
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  #343  
Old 10-10-2011, 12:36 PM
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Here is is:

Quote:
26388. Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open
carrying of an unloaded handgun on publicly owned land, if the
possession and use of a handgun is specifically permitted by the
managing agency of the land and the person carrying that handgun
is in lawful possession of that handgun.
The thing that worries me a little is the wording, "is specifically permitted". If it's not prohibited, does that mean it's permitted? I guess if a particular area (say, BLM for example) has regulations regarding the use of firearms, then it must therefore hold that it is permitted on those lands. And therefore 26350 (bans UOC) does not apply there.

UPDATE 11/23/2011: I received a response from the BLM on this. (More details in this post.) Let me quote part of it here:

Quote:
In response to your more specific question, "Is the possession and use of handguns permitted on BLM lands per federal law and BLM policy?", the simple answer is yes, ...

Last edited by MudCamper; 01-05-2012 at 11:48 AM..
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  #344  
Old 10-10-2011, 2:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
Here is is:



The thing that worries me a little is the wording, "is specifically permitted". If it's not prohibited, does that mean it's permitted? I guess if a particular area (say, BLM for example) has regulations regarding the use of firearms, then it must therefore hold that it is permitted on those lands. And therefore 26350 (bans UOC) does not apply there.
I do not see a CA criminal court agreeing with you sadly.
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Old 10-10-2011, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
Here is is:



The thing that worries me a little is the wording, "is specifically permitted". If it's not prohibited, does that mean it's permitted? I guess if a particular area (say, BLM for example) has regulations regarding the use of firearms, then it must therefore hold that it is permitted on those lands. And therefore 26350 (bans UOC) does not apply there.
Let's hope so. The only time I ever open carry is in NF/NP/BLM lands. Suffice it to say I'm less than comfortable with the prospect of continuing to go on my 7-14 day backpacking trips 30-40 miles into nowhere completely unarmed.
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  #346  
Old 10-10-2011, 8:01 PM
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I do not see a CA criminal court agreeing with you sadly.
How can you possibly say that? What else was the exception added for then? Please explain your logic.

ETA: Let me quote the Forest Service policy, "Firearms and shooting are welcomed in the National Forest System".

Last edited by MudCamper; 10-25-2011 at 8:16 AM..
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  #347  
Old 10-10-2011, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
How can you possibly say that? If that were true, then you can no longer even shoot on NF, BLM, etc. What else was the exception added for then? Please explain your logic.

ETA: Let me quote the Forest Service policy, "Firearms and shooting are welcomed in the National Forest System".
If 12031 doesn't apply we have no issue as you know; LOC/UOC away!

But the exemption says ' specifically permitted ' by the managing agency. I think that is different then ' not prohibited '. Elsewhere in the Deadly Weapons PC the legislature uses the term ' authorized ' etc... and it is usually in reference to an agency issuing a license or endorsement or letter. It is vague here but after the Theseus decision how can we can doubt what a DA will argue and what a criminal trial judge will most certainly allow?
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Last edited by Liberty1; 10-10-2011 at 8:27 PM..
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  #348  
Old 10-11-2011, 8:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Liberty1 View Post
If 12031 doesn't apply we have no issue as you know; LOC/UOC away!
Yes. But the trouble is roads. Perhaps you've never been to the Medocino NF, or much BLM land in NorCal, where roads are nothing more than horrible billy goat trails. You spend a majority of your time on one of them.
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  #349  
Old 10-11-2011, 8:56 AM
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Another point, if 26388 carries no weight, then carry in the NPs is lost again, despite the fact that federal law and NP proclamation now states that they are allowed, because the parks also state that shooting is not allowed.
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  #350  
Old 10-11-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
Here is is:

Quote:
26388. Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open
carrying of an unloaded handgun on publicly owned land, if the
possession and use of a handgun is specifically permitted by the
managing agency of the land
and the person carrying that handgun
is in lawful possession of that handgun.
The thing that worries me a little is the wording, "is specifically permitted". If it's not prohibited, does that mean it's permitted? I guess if a particular area (say, BLM for example) has regulations regarding the use of firearms, then it must therefore hold that it is permitted on those lands. And therefore 26350 (bans UOC) does not apply there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
How can you possibly say that? If that were true, then you can no longer even shoot on NF, BLM, etc. What else was the exception added for then? Please explain your logic.

ETA: Let me quote the Forest Service policy, "Firearms and shooting are welcomed in the National Forest System".
See what I bolded in your posts above, I think we are fine in National Forests based on this official policy statement from the Forest Service regarding Shooting Sports that you referenced:

Quote:
Shooting sports activities have been enjoyed for generations and are welcomed on National Forest System lands...
Many of the national forests reinforce this on their own web sites. For example, here is my local forest (Tahoe) blessing us:

Quote:
Can I carry a firearm on the forest?

National Forest lands are subject to both federal and state regulations. In general, you can carry a firearm on Tahoe NF lands, subject to the requirements of state law. Target shooting and hunting is also allowed, subject to regulation and common sense...
And here is the next forest down the range (Eldorado) blessing it as well:

Quote:
Recreational Activities: Shooting

[Graphic]: Shooting
Although no designated shooting areas exist on the forest, plinking and target shooting are allowed on National Forest land provided that certain guidelines are followed.
Unless there is an official forest order prohibiting firearms or shooting, IMHO we are good to go.
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  #351  
Old 10-11-2011, 11:12 PM
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Repeating some of the prior discussion...

144 says
Quote:
26350. (a) (1) A person is guilty of openly carrying an unloaded
handgun when that person carries upon his or her person an exposed
and unloaded handgun outside a vehicle while in or on any of the
following:
(A) A public place or public street in an incorporated city or
city and county.

(B) A public street in a prohibited area of an unincorporated area
of a county or city and county.

(C) A public place in a prohibited area of a county or city and
county.
...
and the exception in question is
Quote:
26388. Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open
carrying of an unloaded handgun on publicly owned land,

if the possession and use of a handgun is specifically permitted by the
managing agency of the land
and

the person carrying that handgun is in lawful possession of that handgun.
We may be able to reason from analogy: look at the PC for 'assault weapons', 12285
Quote:
(c) A person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this section may possess it only under any of the following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 12286:

(6) While on publicly owned land if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 12276,12276.1, or 12278, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.
The language is identical. As I recall, after considerable kefuffle, one or another agency actually issued a letter clarifying that aws are OK.

If the reasoning is correct, then I think I agree with Liberty1 - the agencies will have to be encouraged to issue a clarifying statement regarding handguns.

Given the evidence GrizzlyGuy posted, getting the statement shouldn't be difficult, but may have layers of bureaucracy to overcome.
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  #352  
Old 10-12-2011, 8:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
If the reasoning is correct, then I think I agree with Liberty1 - the agencies will have to be encouraged to issue a clarifying statement regarding handguns.
If this is how it flushes out, then we've lost the National Parks for sure.

While I still won't surrender the fact that "handguns" are "firearms" and firearms are specifically permitted in NF, BLM, and NPs, I will still see about getting letters from both the Forest Service and the BLM clarifying handguns.
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Old 10-12-2011, 9:42 AM
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Well as a worst case scenario, we could fall back on the hunting exemption included in the law:

Quote:
26366. Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open
carrying of an unloaded handgun by a licensed hunter while engaged in
hunting or while transporting that handgun when going to or
returning from that hunting expedition.
Coyote season is year round. Handguns are a legal method of take. One could carry a handgun (and hunting license) at all times (in the NF or BLM) so that if he ever sees a coyote he can shoot it. This way he's always either hunting or traveling to/from hunting. Still no help for NPs though. And you'd open yourself up to other F&G issues, like surrendering your 4A rights, or no lead ammo in condor regions, etc.
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  #354  
Old 10-12-2011, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
Well as a worst case scenario, we could fall back on the hunting exemption included in the law:



Coyote season is year round. Handguns are a legal method of take. One could carry a handgun (and hunting license) at all times (in the NF or BLM) so that if he ever sees a coyote he can shoot it. This way he's always either hunting or traveling to/from hunting. Still no help for NPs though. And you'd open yourself up to other F&G issues, like surrendering your 4A rights, or no lead ammo in condor regions, etc.
Hey Mudcamper,

Here is language from Coburn's amendment to the Credit Card Accountability Act:
"(8) The Federal laws should make it clear that the second amendment rights of an individual at a unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System should not be infringed.
(b) Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear Arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System.--The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--"

My question: This appears to spell-out the intent of this legislation well. Guns are allowed on the NP system by permission of 2A, right, wrong?

Your thoughts?

markm
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  #355  
Old 10-12-2011, 3:55 PM
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What's the new law's impact on this issue?
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  #356  
Old 10-12-2011, 4:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markm View Post
My question: This appears to spell-out the intent of this legislation well. Guns are allowed on the NP system by permission of 2A, right, wrong?

Your thoughts?
The Parks have already banned use. This creates the "prohibited area" that is in 12031 and the new 26350. That pretty much bans LOC and UOC. Intent of the law? The Park Service couldn't care less. They will comply with the letter of the law. They are allowing firearms in the Parks, subject to State laws. In our state, the laws suck big time, and are getting worse every year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smle-man View Post
What's the new law's impact on this issue?
You must have missed all the posts just before yours. That's what we're talking about.
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Old 10-12-2011, 6:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
The Parks have already banned use. This creates the "prohibited area" that is in 12031 and the new 26350. That pretty much bans LOC and UOC. Intent of the law? The Park Service couldn't care less. They will comply with the letter of the law. They are allowing firearms in the Parks, subject to State laws. In our state, the laws suck big time, and are getting worse every year.



You must have missed all the posts just before yours. That's what we're talking about.
Yes I did, sorry. I was reading Calguns on my cell phone browser and didn't read the thread to the latest posting.
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  #358  
Old 10-13-2011, 7:21 AM
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Hey Mudcamper,

Here is PC 26366 (Exemptions):

Quote:
26366. Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open
carrying of an unloaded handgun by a licensed hunter while
engaged in hunting or while transporting that handgun when going
to or returning from that hunting expedition.
This exemption seems to have a loophole the size of an 18 wheeler.

Does this exempt the open carry of a handgun while driving your car to and from a hunting expedition? (I know you can't definitively say yeah or nay; however, I wish to get your opinion)

markm
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  #359  
Old 10-13-2011, 8:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markm View Post
Does this exempt the open carry of a handgun while driving your car to and from a hunting expedition?
Just like 12027(g) exempts you from 12025 while going to/from hunting trips, in my opinion 26366 also exempts you from 26350 while going to/from hunting trips, and that includes in your vehicle.
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  #360  
Old 10-13-2011, 8:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
Just like 12027(g) exempts you from 12025 while going to/from hunting trips, in my opinion 26366 also exempts you from 26350 while going to/from hunting trips, and that includes in your vehicle.
Thanks Mudcamper,

I did not read anything in 26350 that alters or repeals 12027(g), is this a correct assumption?

If my assumption is correct, we can still rely on 12027(g) to protect us against inaverdantly covering-up a handgun (concealing) with a parka or jacket while hunting. Yes, no?

markm
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