aluminum or polymer 80%?

[kcstott]

Yeah I let the lack of proper product testing slide but I'm glad someone else caught it and posted their opinion.

Proper product testing is the foundation to proper quality control. Go ask your tool makers and engineers. But the sad fact is to many of today's comanies are too damn eager to get a product to market that product testing is seen as a waste of money.
The " we can't afford it" statement is BS. You can't afford not too. And the sooner you learn that the better.

[TnArmsCo]

some peoples kids....... im guessing common courtesy is something that isnt practiced everywhere is it..

This is Dave... my brother John is who usually responds... He's the nicer one, but this is my company.

First of all.... I would never put a product on the market that has an chance of being unsafe. I build these for a living. The product testing and science that went into them was a collaborative effort involving dozens of people and who knows how many years of experience in both design and composite materials. If you are going to troll a page and be rude have something to back your statement up. I have thousands of receivers on the market. many with thousands and thousands of rounds. While your statement to you is meaningless it most certainly is not to me. This is my company and putting out a quality product is everything to us. If you have concerns about what we do then prove us as unsafe.... If you cant you simply have an opinion... and opinions without anything to back them are worthless.

[TnArmsCo]

kc.. wasnt directed toward you....

they are tested.... you have no idea how much... but sending them to BATF or another lab is worthless considering the usage these are intended for. Our lowers get nowhere near the compression and temperature limitations for the material we use.

[Sunday]

The AR lower is fairly highly stressed area where the receiver extension attaches to the lower. Other than that seems the trigger and mag area is low stress. I would choose a 7075 forging from a mil contractor over a plastic lower. It is a far better value for the $$$$ http://www.andersonrifles.com/produc...achined-lower/ Why buy plastic.

[TnArmsCo]

The AR lower is fairly highly stressed area where the receiver extension attaches to the lower. Other than that seems the trigger and mag area is low stress. I would choose a 7075 forging from a mil contractor over a plastic lower. It is a far better value for the $$$$ http://www.andersonrifles.com/produc...achined-lower/ Why buy plastic.

We factored that in when we designed our lower, which is why we use a brass insert in the buffer collar and we also use a high shelf design to further reinforce the "beaver tail" where other polymer lowers were prone to failing. We have yet to see a cracked buffer collar or failure out of the rear of the receiver.

[kcstott]

Tnarms
The BATF done know dirt about product testing. Others have stated unsafe while I have not. What I'm getting at is a very Simple cheep test. Just stick it in a hydro press and push on it. Prove out what it takes to break it.
No expensive lab. No BATF, no nothing just a hydro press and a accurate pressure gage. That's all.
Then you can directly compare your product to others. And you could use it as an opertunity to show yours is stronger the other poly lowers. Theirs break at X amount of pounds while you're take X more pounds to break. People like numbers.
Now if you are going to rely on calculations, and material specs without accurate empirical testing to back it up. Well human error will read its ugly head. Or you may find something g that you never anticipated. In any event proper testing with calibrated standards is the only way to know for sure what your lower can take. Guys on YouTube doing BS test is no test as no base line was used. What was performed was an experiment not a test.

[ModulusArms]

Could you do that same test and some how factor in the brass insert we have in the buffer tower?

Yes, that can be done. I don't see it helping where the highest stress concentration is but who knows. I do this for a living and I can't run limitless tests. If you really want an analysis it'll cost $$$.

[ModulusArms]

Testing is an important part of the process. Many smaller companies skip the analysis section and instead test the first articles instead. Most larger companies do analysis before hand then test the first articles as well to verify the analysis. Companies doomed to fail do not do analysis and then do not test first articles. I have no idea which category you fall into but that's the usual procedure.

I have seen over my career that manufacturers see engineered products and say to themselves that they can do that too. For some products this is possible with very little hassle. For other products, they cannot be simply duplicated by visually copying it. Engineers design products. Machinists, fabricators, tool makers, molders etc. make them. When engineers make parts they are terrible. When manufacturers design parts they are terrible.

[SimonBirch]

I would only get a poly lower for a .22 build

[Jeepers]

I was not a AR guy but building a few this year and see a place for both...

I am planning on doing a couple of poly lowers as .22 (have not decided on which yet as I haven't researched the poly companies all that well yet)for the kids and a couple of AL for the lil lady and myself , don't think I would trust a 80% poly to hold up over time with full power 556 and larger calibers(looking @ big bore builds for the AL's) but thats just me ......

and yari I loved your lowers wish I picked one up back in the day ......

[valley82]

After three pages, I honestly still don't get the attraction to poly, the only AR I would even think of being a weight concern is my LR308 and I surely wouldn't put a plastic lower on it. My HK93 clone has a plastic trigger housing on it (that is re-enforced with steel in the high stress ares)
To each his own but I'll stick with aluminum.

[kcstott]

I have seen over my career that manufacturers see engineered products and say to themselves that they can do that too. For some products this is possible with very little hassle. For other products, they cannot be simply duplicated by visually copying it. Engineers design products. Machinists, fabricators, tool makers, molders etc. make them. Tells the the engineer he's wrong and it can't be made they way he drew it and to go back and fix it. When engineers make parts they are terrible. When manufacturers design parts they are terrible.

Fixed it for ya.

And yes this day an age R&D means RIP OFF AND DUPLICATE

[SERIAL SNIPER]

No, we haven't done the testing because we can't afford it.Forgive me for telling you the truth and not making it seem like we are a bigger company than we are. All of our capital when we first started went back into making corrections to our mold. Even though you may think the material is cheap, the tooling is not. We are not a fly by night company and we make the highest quality Hybrid lower in the industry. If you would look further than what you see on a forum page and look at what our customers think of our lowers, you will find that our product and our customer service is all top notch. If you disagree with the testing of our lower and don't believe enough was done, that is your opinion. We would not, and did not send out an unsafe product. We have yet to have a replacement in due to failure, only replacements to upgrade to an improved model. Comparing us to Ice Arms is kind of a low blow when you haven't had any experience with our products or service. We are veteran own and operated and stand behind our product 110%. We are available anytime at 731-334-5106 or by email at john@tac-llc.com or dave@tac-llc.com if you would like any details on our lowers, manufacturing process, or testing procedure.
Thanks , john

Low blow well i dont think its to roar off considering they didn't test there products either and look where there at. not sure if you know this but your not the only people who have built poly lowers and failed.

i guess these day you the only qualifications you need to make lowers is
1) own a current ar 15 lower
2) be a vet
3) not have money for testing your product

to be honest if i were you i would delete all off the part where your informing everybody that you don't test your product. just for the slim chance that somebody get hurt with your poly lower. i would hate to see a lawyer download this page and read it to a jury.

how does the saying go better to not say nothing and be thought of as a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt?

i dont think a brass bushing is the answer for this one. once again another company that didn't test it

[SERIAL SNIPER]

Fixed it for ya.

And yes this day an age R&D means RIP OFF AND DUPLICATE

that is so funny I'm still laughing

[SERIAL SNIPER]

Tnarms
The BATF done know dirt about product testing. Others have stated unsafe while I have not. What I'm getting at is a very Simple cheep test. Just stick it in a hydro press and push on it. Prove out what it takes to break it.
No expensive lab. No BATF, no nothing just a hydro press and a accurate pressure gage. That's all.
Then you can directly compare your product to others. And you could use it as an opertunity to show yours is stronger the other poly lowers. Theirs break at X amount of pounds while you're take X more pounds to break. People like numbers.
Now if you are going to rely on calculations, and material specs without accurate empirical testing to back it up. Well human error will read its ugly head. Or you may find something g that you never anticipated. In any event proper testing with calibrated standards is the only way to know for sure what your lower can take. Guys on YouTube doing BS test is no test as no base line was used. What was performed was an experiment not a test.

yes i love the you tube test where they are throwing it on the ground and then shoot it like its cool. WTF kind of test is that.