aluminum or polymer 80%?

[yari]

[Gunsmith Dan]

TnArmsCo

OMG talk about a class action lawsuit waiting to happen.

A manufacturer should NEVER admit they do not test their products for safety ...... ESPECIALLY on a public forum ........ OMG again.

You can basically kiss your company good bye if anyone screen printed your post that had a product of yours that broke and showed all that to a attorney.

What type of poor business practice are you doing when you make a product that has a high chance of hurting or killing someone if it fails and do no safety testing?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?

Seriously the excuse "we did not have the money" and "but our customers really like our lowers" will not go very far in front of a judge and jury when one fails and hurts or kills someone, beside it being completely disrespectful to your customers.


AS FAR AS TESTING:

Unless you have VERY strange customers doing sledge hammer, fire, ice and god knows what other tests, EXCEPT shooting thousands of rounds with it ( the actual purpose it was designed for), the tests are useless and just either for show or distraction "well gee on their video it got hit by a sledge hammer it must be strong and will last". What all these fly by night polymer lower makers, regardless of the money spent or machinery used they still fly by night, is that stress inducted by repeated shock and torque over long periods can do damage where sudden large single impact stress would not.

[kcstott]

TnArmsCo

OMG talk about a class action lawsuit waiting to happen.

A manufacturer should NEVER admit they do not test their products for safety ...... ESPECIALLY on a public forum ........ OMG again.

You can basically kiss your company good bye if anyone screen printed your post that had a product of yours that broke and showed all that to a attorney.

What type of poor business practice are you doing when you make a product that has a high chance of hurting or killing someone if it fails and do no safety testing?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?

Seriously the excuse "we did not have the money" and "but our customers really like our lowers" will not go very far in front of a judge and jury when one fails and hurts or kills someone, beside it being completely disrespectful to your customers.


AS FAR AS TESTING:

Unless you have VERY strange customers doing sledge hammer, fire, ice and god knows what other tests, EXCEPT shooting thousands of rounds with it ( the actual purpose it was designed for), the tests are useless and just either for show or distraction "well gee on their video it got hit by a sledge hammer it must be strong and will last". What all these fly by night polymer lower makers, regardless of the money spent or machinery used they still fly by night, is that stress inducted by repeated shock and torque over long periods can do damage where sudden large single impact stress would not.

Dan
Yari
Serialsniper

I could not agree with you more. Especially Dan with the liability issue mentioned.
That was the point I was trying to make.

Yari you could make those sproket cover out of plastic. Think of the money you'll make. yeah these boys don't get it. it's not about money it's about making a well respected product. just because you get a bunch of mall ninjas to endorse it don't mean it's worth a damn.

See I worked in the molding industry for the better part of my career as a machinist tool maker. And I can remember one instance where an engineer was damn near fired because he disagreed with the company owner. Now the owner is one of those guys where if you tell him no often enough or disagree with him enough he will hand you your walking papers pretty quick and I mean for ridiculous stuff. so this engineer told the owner that we need to do product testing. Nope no we don't said the owner we need to get our first articles to the show so we can get orders.
an argument ensued and the owner finally let the engineer do SOME testing but not everything that needed to be done. Mind you this was all done in house.

TnArms read that again IN HOUSE!!! you don't need a certified lab to test your product but your total lack of knowledge on the subject proves to me your lack of experience in the industry.

Anyway due to the failure of full product testing we invested a huge amount of money in tooling (multiple tools) for a product that went no where, then after a market and technology shift it went away as it was obsolete before it was ready for market.

So the next person that says they cant afford or don't need product testing needs to be slapped

an BTW Tnarms you were asking about your inserts and how they would effect strength. again lack of experience as toolmakers and molders.

Your insert will increase the strength of the threads obviously but due to the fact that you now removed material from a critical area and increased the area in which your stresses can act upon it you made the tower weaker. there is less plastic to support the buffer. insert or no insert, if tested the way I described your lower will fail by having the bushing pop out either by pushing or pulling then the tower will shear off. just like the picture.

[valley82]

I would be more concerned with...He WAS a good man, he bought a lower from XXX company, when he was using said lower to defend his life it broke at the buffer tower. DUE TO THE MANUFACTURER NOT TESTING THEIR PRODUCT. We are seeking monetary damages in the amount of....

[kcstott]

I would be more concerned with...He WAS a good man, he bought a lower from XXX company, when he was using said lower to defend his life it broke at the buffer tower. DUE TO THE MANUFACTURER NOT TESTING THEIR PRODUCT. We are seeking monetary damages in the amount of....

yeah a wrongful death case would be easier to file and way more potential for winning.

[phantomfinisher]

If I may interject on the picture above, first, that does not look like a TN ARMS lower but I digress from that, the answer to THAT problem is proper reinforcement and material as well as proper mold processing and pre-injection treatment of the material (drying ect.).

The broken buffer tube is not a "polymer" problem, it's a quality problem. I agree testing should flesh out such issues.

There are a lot of bad poly lowers out there and bad companies making them giving plenty ofammo in the form of pictures and stories for those of you particular folks on a crusade against all polymer lowers but i can tell you I stand by my product and I own 3 AR'S and they are all Polymer80 lowers and my one stag arms lower is stripped and ready to sell.

I trust my product for hunting, target shooting and tactical training and use.

We never stop poring over our product and constantly look for ways to improve. There is a clear difference between these take your money and run cheap polymer lower makers and those of us who really do strive to produce.a high quality product and take excellent care of our customers.

[phantomfinisher]

Testing is an important part of the process. Many smaller companies skip the analysis section and instead test the first articles instead. Most larger companies do analysis before hand then test the first articles as well to verify the analysis. Companies doomed to fail do not do analysis and then do not test first articles. I have no idea which category you fall into but that's the usual procedure.

I have seen over my career that manufacturers see engineered products and say to themselves that they can do that too. For some products this is possible with very little hassle. For other products, they cannot be simply duplicated by visually copying it. Engineers design products. Machinists, fabricators, tool makers, molders etc. make them. When engineers make parts they are terrible. When manufacturers design parts they are terrible.

^^^^^That is very well said! Totally agree!!^^^^^

[SERIAL SNIPER]

phantom finisher correct its not a poly lower. the reason why i posted that is because i see this all the time with poly lowers.