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  • #46
    TnArmsCo
    Vendor/Retailer
    • Sep 2014
    • 82

    Apples to Oranges Comparison

    I believe the polymer receiver world has a huge black cloud over it's head due to a few companies trying to make a quick buck during the scare. We have all seen the same 3 or 4 pictures of a certain companies lowers that have snapped below the buffer tube at the beaver tail after a few rounds have been fired or the buffer collar that houses the threads has cracked.I don't know if this is a material failure or it was a design failure, probably a little of both. Early in our design phase, we got one of those lowers (had a buffer retainer lodged deep into it) and yes, it did survive a whole combat load of 270-ish rounds, but when we were changing some parts on the barrel, using our feet as a vise, the beaver tail cracked under minimal torquing. We found that the use of a low shelf design wasn't going to work on our design, so we beefed up that area as much as we could without hindering the function of the lower. We also sent the lower off to see what material it was made of and decided not to go that route. Nylon 6-6 was for us. It had been proven as a good material for Rough Country Suspension as the main material for some of their bushings...so if it's good enough for outdoor/offroad automotive use, it was good enough for us. The brass inserts we use are for their resistance to corrosion, ease of machining, strength, and it ability to not react with anodized aluminum. We also designed the inserts with knurling so that when the hot nylon flows into the mold, it flows into the knurling. So, when the material cures, the inserts are locked in.

    These improvements over the earlier designs have been proven in the field and will stand toe to toe with a aluminum lower for regular use. Will they stand up to the same pressures in a vise like an aluminum lower, no, but will aluminum bend and bounce back to shape like a Nylon or Polymer will .. no. Each material has it's pros and cons. But when you look at them though the guise using it as what it is, a rifle lower and not a baseball bat. Then yes, Nylon and some higher quality polymer lowers can take every bit of abuse as aluminum lowers can. I say it's an apples to oranges comparison because they both have good and bad qualities, but they are both fruit when you look at what you are actually using them for.

    Comment

    • #47
      yari
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 908

      I don't know why you would lube a lower. And how much lighter is it? Half an ounce? Big deal.

      Comment

      • #48
        TnArmsCo
        Vendor/Retailer
        • Sep 2014
        • 82

        Originally posted by yari
        I don't know why you would lube a lower. And how much lighter is it? Half an ounce? Big deal.
        I don't know why you would lube a lower either. Standard forged lowers are around 8.3oz +- a couple ounces depending on the manufacturer. Our regular lowers are 5.6oz stripped and our clear trainer lower is 3.6, we believe these are the lightest on the market. So, it is a little bit more than half an ounce. In the case of the clear. It's more like a quarter pound.

        Comment

        • #49
          phantomfinisher
          Member
          • Sep 2012
          • 390

          Originally posted by yari
          I don't know why you would lube a lower. And how much lighter is it? Half an ounce? Big deal.
          Actually much lighter that and why don't you just be honest and get a vendor account because lets be real here, you have the same bias as I and TN arms do, you are selling metal lowers on this site, but the difference is we were honest in our posts about it. You should try it sometime. jussayin'.
          Web: www.polymer80.com
          Email: loran@polymer80.com
          Address:
          3111 Deer Run Road
          Carson City NV 89701

          Comment

          • #50
            TnArmsCo
            Vendor/Retailer
            • Sep 2014
            • 82

            Originally posted by phantomfinisher
            Actually much lighter that and why don't you just be honest and get a vendor account because lets be real here, you have the same bias as I and TN arms do, you are selling metal lowers on this site, but the difference is we were honest in our posts about it. You should try it sometime. jussayin'.
            Email has been sent to get vendor info...I'm not trying to step on toes. I just want to clear the air when it comes to poly lowers. A couple bad companies gave the whole industry a bad name.

            Comment

            • #51
              phantomfinisher
              Member
              • Sep 2012
              • 390

              Originally posted by TnArmsCo
              I believe the polymer receiver world has a huge black cloud over it's head due to a few companies trying to make a quick buck during the scare. We have all seen the same 3 or 4 pictures of a certain companies lowers that have snapped below the buffer tube at the beaver tail after a few rounds have been fired or the buffer collar that houses the threads has cracked.I don't know if this is a material failure or it was a design failure, probably a little of both. Early in our design phase, we got one of those lowers (had a buffer retainer lodged deep into it) and yes, it did survive a whole combat load of 270-ish rounds, but when we were changing some parts on the barrel, using our feet as a vise, the beaver tail cracked under minimal torquing. We found that the use of a low shelf design wasn't going to work on our design, so we beefed up that area as much as we could without hindering the function of the lower. We also sent the lower off to see what material it was made of and decided not to go that route. Nylon 6-6 was for us. It had been proven as a good material for Rough Country Suspension as the main material for some of their bushings...so if it's good enough for outdoor/offroad automotive use, it was good enough for us. The brass inserts we use are for their resistance to corrosion, ease of machining, strength, and it ability to not react with anodized aluminum. We also designed the inserts with knurling so that when the hot nylon flows into the mold, it flows into the knurling. So, when the material cures, the inserts are locked in.

              These improvements over the earlier designs have been proven in the field and will stand toe to toe with a aluminum lower for regular use. Will they stand up to the same pressures in a vise like an aluminum lower, no, but will aluminum bend and bounce back to shape like a Nylon or Polymer will .. no. Each material has it's pros and cons. But when you look at them though the guise using it as what it is, a rifle lower and not a baseball bat. Then yes, Nylon and some higher quality polymer lowers can take every bit of abuse as aluminum lowers can. I say it's an apples to oranges comparison because they both have good and bad qualities, but they are both fruit when you look at what you are actually using them for.


              Sounds like you have done much of what we have done and I agree about the black cloud. There are some TERRIBLE poly lowers that came out to make a quick buck. I have seen the TN arms and its pretty damn good.

              Another competitor of mine (and TN arms) JMT Tactical makes a great product too. We are out there but the above post is right, some very shady characters have given polymer lowers a bad name unjustly.
              Web: www.polymer80.com
              Email: loran@polymer80.com
              Address:
              3111 Deer Run Road
              Carson City NV 89701

              Comment

              • #52
                phantomfinisher
                Member
                • Sep 2012
                • 390

                Originally posted by TnArmsCo
                Email has been sent to get vendor info...I'm not trying to step on toes. I just want to clear the air when it comes to poly lowers. A couple bad companies gave the whole industry a bad name.
                I know, you were upfront in your first post. No issues in my book
                Web: www.polymer80.com
                Email: loran@polymer80.com
                Address:
                3111 Deer Run Road
                Carson City NV 89701

                Comment

                • #53
                  phantomfinisher
                  Member
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 390

                  Originally posted by yari
                  I don't know why you would lube a lower. And how much lighter is it? Half an ounce? Big deal.
                  Oh and polymer (done right) has MUCH better impact resistance than aluminum too. Another reason Polymer is better.

                  In truth when comparing equally quality products it really is a wash. It comes down to personal preference really. If you are gonna make a homemade fire arm, Polymer will take a lot less time, effort and money.

                  There IS a noticeable weight difference with a polymer lower.

                  But many people have peace of mind in metal and that is fine. Competition is a great thing. It forces those of us who produce products for you to improve everyday. But to dismiss one or the other out-of-hand is short-sighted and close-minded.

                  Basically everyone on here making a strong case one way or the other (including myself) is trying to sell their product. Much of what was said is good, solid info. But research and self education are invaluable assets.
                  Web: www.polymer80.com
                  Email: loran@polymer80.com
                  Address:
                  3111 Deer Run Road
                  Carson City NV 89701

                  Comment

                  • #54
                    TnArmsCo
                    Vendor/Retailer
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 82

                    he sounds very angry..... poor guy

                    Comment

                    • #55
                      phantomfinisher
                      Member
                      • Sep 2012
                      • 390

                      Originally posted by TnArmsCo
                      he sounds very angry..... poor guy
                      Web: www.polymer80.com
                      Email: loran@polymer80.com
                      Address:
                      3111 Deer Run Road
                      Carson City NV 89701

                      Comment

                      • #56
                        Nathan Krynn
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 2107

                        Lets not get into a peeing contest into the wind here.

                        I have seen a lot more than 3-4 broken poly lowers but I agree that they seem to come from the same companies and frankly I do not know ya'lls products specifically to say good or bad.

                        I did see pics of the brass in the polly lower and thought that was clever and cool.

                        Of course you know I sell metal ones but frankly variety makes the world go around I say, except to my wife to be.

                        The only thing I say is for each company to get an approved determination letter for their specific product with their name on it prior to selling a single one. Lets please all do that so we do not invite disaster to our combined industry and customers.
                        Nathan
                        Tactical Machining
                        1270 Biscayne Blvd
                        Deland, FL 32724
                        Phone 386-490-4464
                        fax 386-490-4890

                        Comment

                        • #57
                          yari
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 908

                          I'm not a vendor. I did make a few 80s way back. I'm not trying to sell anything. I just think its funny you argue how it is as good but not better.

                          Comment

                          • #58
                            TnArmsCo
                            Vendor/Retailer
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 82

                            Originally posted by yari
                            I'm not a vendor. I did make a few 80s way back. I'm not trying to sell anything. I just think its funny you argue how it is as good but not better.
                            Nope...not gonna feed a troll today. Nope. nope.nope

                            Comment

                            • #59
                              yari
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 908

                              A troll huh. How long have you been around here?

                              Comment

                              • #60
                                TnArmsCo
                                Vendor/Retailer
                                • Sep 2014
                                • 82

                                Originally posted by yari
                                A troll huh. How long have you been around here?
                                Here...like here here...bout 2 hours.

                                Comment

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