Ak Cycle/Trigger Problem Solved

[aerospace90248]

I like Curtis and his parts, but this is a bunch of

Look, I doubt you have 3 bad Tapco trigger sets, I doubt its the ammo. You have 3 kits from Curtis that are not cycling properly. Its either the gas port is undersized, the gas piston is out of spec (if they are US) . You need to do the tape thing and measure how far the bolt carrier is going back as mentioned. Until you know this, your just guessing, and there is no way to actually tell until you fire it again. Do you have a buffer in these pistols? If so take them out. Grease the rails and bottom of the carrier that slides over the hammer too.

Stick a flash light down the barrel, and inspect the gas port. Maybe there is crud in the gas block or something. More pics...

I will try the tape thing first before swapping triggers etc.. to see how that works. If it's not raining will try to take them to oak Tree tomorrow.

Curtis is sending me the bit for the gas port on the Pistol kit we purchased from him so we can drill through the barrel.

[pepsi2451]

Springs? The other trigger s we did only have the main spring that wraps around the hammer and never had any issues. Is there supposed to be one on the disconnector? WOW, i seriously hope I'm not that ignorant.

Yes, there should be a spring between the disco and the trigger. Your tapco trigger group should have come with it. I still had problem when I used a tapco trigger group on an NDS receiver. It would work fine cycling it by hand but it would fail to reset almost every other time shooting it. I ended up swapping it out for a different trigger group and it works fine now.

What kind of receiver are you using?

[munkeeboi]

changing barrel length changes the gas port size needed. wonder if curtis used the same size port for all his builds. if the carrier is moving when shot, then the barrel has been drilled already. Whether the hole is big enough is the next question.

regarding the spring, there are 2 for the trigger group. the one that wraps around the hammer and there is a liner spring (think spring inside a retractable pen) that sits inside the disconnector that pushes against the inner flat portion of the trigger. On tapco triggers, there is a circular seat for that spring to sit in.

[aerospace90248]

Yes, there should be a spring between the disco and the trigger. Your tapco trigger group should have come with it. I still had problem when I used a tapco trigger group on an NDS receiver. It would work fine cycling it by hand but it would fail to reset almost every other time shooting it. I ended up swapping it out for a different trigger group and it works fine now.

What kind of receiver are you using?

Ohh that spring. I'm using that "L" shaped flat piece of metal (Forget what its called) instead of the spring to hold the pins in place. I'm using Ak builders flats. What yours did is exactly what ours are doing. Did you use another Tapco trigger or a different brand? What type of kit was it?

[munkeeboi]

Yes, there should be a spring between the disco and the trigger. Your tapco trigger group should have come with it. I still had problem when I used a tapco trigger group on an NDS receiver. It would work fine cycling it by hand but it would fail to reset almost every other time shooting it. I ended up swapping it out for a different trigger group and it works fine now.

What kind of receiver are you using?

Tapco FCG never come with any springs...They must be re-used from the original FCG.

[aerospace90248]

Better Trigger Pics

Here are some trigger pics that are a but more clear.

[munkeeboi]

Ohh that spring. I'm using that "L" shaped flat piece of metal (Forget what its called) instead of the spring to hold the pins in place. I'm using Ak builders flats. What yours did is exactly what ours are doing. Did you use another Tapco trigger or a different brand? What type of kit was it?

The retaining plate is different the the disconnector spring. you need both of these springs

disconnetor spring


hammer spring


Like turboelky said...I doubt all 3 trigger sets are defective.

[munkeeboi]

if you do not know if you installed the disconnector spring, you need to remove the trigger and take a picture from the back.

[munkeeboi]

Do the FCG test (this should be done for every new install to make sure your trigger group is working correctly)

- make sure chamber is clear and point in a safe direction
- Rack carrier so hammer is cocked
- Pull trigger and hold trigger
- Rack carrier again and let her fly forward!
- Did the hammer catch on the disconnector?
....if yes...release trigger - did it catch on the front hook of the trigger? - yes...FCG is normal (but repeat a few times to make sure)

....if no, hammer flies forward...FCG is missing disconnector spring, something incorrectly installed, or defective FCG parts

My theory is that you are holding the trigger long enough when you fire, that when the carrier slides back and the disconnector is not working correctly, the hammer just follows the carrier since the trigger hook is still forward and there is no tension on the disconnector.

The times where you let go of the trigger faster is just fast enough to catch the hammer. Could be the reason why it worked sometimes and followed on other times

[Jerkdog]

I vote that the disconnector spring is missing or installed incorrectly. I've done that recently on a build...see linky here if you don't know where it should be. Third picture down has a metal punch pointing at it.

http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/Step_7.htm

[aerospace90248]

Do the FCG test (this should be done for every new install to make sure your trigger group is working correctly)

- make sure chamber is clear and point in a safe direction
- Rack carrier so hammer is cocked
- Pull trigger and hold trigger
- Rack carrier again and let her fly forward!
- Did the hammer catch on the disconnector?
....if yes...release trigger - did it catch on the front hook of the trigger? - yes...FCG is normal (but repeat a few times to make sure)

....if no, hammer flies forward...FCG is missing disconnector spring, something incorrectly installed, or defective FCG parts

My theory is that you are holding the trigger long enough when you fire, that when the carrier slides back and the disconnector is not working correctly, the hammer just follows the carrier since the trigger hook is still forward and there is no tension on the disconnector.

The times where you let go of the trigger faster is just fast enough to catch the hammer. Could be the reason why it worked sometimes and followed on other times

Ok I think it's the disconnector spring, my first 2 build parties I never saw anyone use that spring. My other builds (Romi) does not have that spring and have never had a problem.

When I did your test on My AMD it DOES NOT catch. But on my buddies Pistol it catches sometimes and sometimes it does not.

Where does that spring go? Really weird that I never saw anyone use it or ask for it on the other builds.

[munkeeboi]

If you disassemble the trigger group...there is a hole underneath the back of the disconnector where the spring goes. You can't miss where it goes and how it seats into the trigger.

I would fix your romy too, better safe than sorry

[aerospace90248]

WOW

All I can say is WOOOWWWW, I feel like an idiot.

It was the disconnector spring. Never put it in but didn't know I had two. Between me and a couple others built 5 Romi G's and didn't use that spring and all were fine. When I was first learning no one ever mentioned it either.

Well I just put in the spring on my AMD rifle and the hammer catches now when I hold the trigger down and rack it. I will take to the range for a live fire test to make sure and post the results.

Same with GT-3's rifle. I'll put the spring in and test fire and report. Now that just leaves one other buddies pistil which I'm banking on is the gas port, I don't think the barrel was drilled because it doesn't cycle the carrier at all.

[aerospace90248]

I vote that the disconnector spring is missing or installed incorrectly. I've done that recently on a build...see linky here if you don't know where it should be. Third picture down has a metal punch pointing at it.

http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/Step_7.htm

Thanks for the link. I'm going to test fire now and see if that does the trick. Will report results.

Thank You to everyone for helping. Hopefully that spring solves the issue.

[JamesY]

Did any of those 5 Romy Gs without disco spring fire full-auto?