Moderators, please delete.

[njineermike]

What is illegal or potentially illegal about what I asked?

You do realize the CA DOJ has a nearly unlimited budget and a small army of attorneys ready and willing to ruin your life, right? While this may he completely legal, it's poking a bear that wants to bite your hand off.

[MosinVirus]

Why not just become an FFL 07 and do it the right way?

In the future. When I have a workshop.

In any case, I just thought of a reason I shouldn't do this. I am pretty sure there would be a violation if someone did send me a completed frame and I sent it back to them... Right? 100% frame sent by mail from one random guy to another...

[MosinVirus]

You do realize the CA DOJ has a nearly unlimited budget and a small army of attorneys ready and willing to ruin your life, right? While this may he completely legal, it's poking a bear that wants to bite your hand off.

Sure, but that is no way to live a life. If it not illegal, it is legal. I found a reason to not do this anyway.

[kcstott]

In a little late but here is what previous cases have shown. and what the BATFE charged people with in larger cases.

any work performed by a person that is not the owner of the uncompleted frame/ receiver is a manufacturer of unlicensed firearms if that person takes that frame or receiver to a level of completion beyond what was originally approved and submitted to the BATFE in their letter of approval based upon the part that was sent in and the part drawings received.

The intent of that statement was to keep people from doing partial work on an AR15 lower then having a shop finish it for them. But the fact that they mentioned that the part will no longer match what they approved means they can charge you with a crime, it don't mean they will hunt you down but it could give them a reason.

What you should do is pose a question to the Firearms technology division and be very specific about what you will do and what you will not be doing.
List ever possibility. Repair of holes not associated with the FCG, Checkering polishing filing sanding grinding milling of areas for aesthetic reasons not in conjunction with operations needed to complete the part into a functional firearm And that no dimensional changes will be made nor any material removed or otherwise disturbed nor markings made to the part in the areas outlined as operation requiring completion to create a functional firearm.

get a letter back saying you're good to and and you're off and running.

[Awesomesauce]

I wasn't trying to nay-say, but just echo what njineermike was saying. The CA Haters have unlimited resources and look to make your life miserable because... "for the children".
So do what you love, but be smart about it, your contributions are extremely valuable to the community!

And yes, you discovered a potential game-changer.

[MosinVirus]

In a little late but here is what previous cases have shown. and what the BATFE charged people with in larger cases.

any work performed by a person that is not the owner of the uncompleted frame/ receiver is a manufacturer of unlicensed firearms if that person takes that frame or receiver to a level of completion beyond what was originally approved and submitted to the BATFE in their letter of approval based upon the part that was sent in and the part drawings received.

The intent of that statement was to keep people from doing partial work on an AR15 lower then having a shop finish it for them. But the fact that they mentioned that the part will no longer match what they approved means they can charge you with a crime, it don't mean they will hunt you down but it could give them a reason.

What you should do is pose a question to the Firearms technology division and be very specific about what you will do and what you will not be doing.
List ever possibility. Repair of holes not associated with the FCG, Checkering polishing filing sanding grinding milling of areas for aesthetic reasons not in conjunction with operations needed to complete the part into a functional firearm And that no dimensional changes will be made nor any material removed or otherwise disturbed nor markings made to the part in the areas outlined as operation requiring completion to create a functional firearm.

get a letter back saying you're good to and and you're off and running.

Thanks man. I figures I could potentially get something like this, but I figured there may be other factors that would make me uneasy. Specifically, if someone decides to not pay attention and send me a completed pistol frame, I open the box, realize that it is a 100% frame I am now in possession of someone else's gun, and if I ship it back, I am shipping a handgun frame to a fellow CA. That would be bad, no?

[MosinVirus]

I wasn't trying to nay-say, but just echo what njineermike was saying. The CA Haters have unlimited resources and look to make your life miserable because... "for the children".
So do what you love, but be smart about it, your contributions are extremely valuable to the community!

And yes, you discovered a potential game-changer.

I know. It is good that people are looking out and voicing concerns. Kc brought up a really good point. The frame looks one way when approved. Then I change the way it looks. Could be bad.

[dwalker]

In the future. When I have a workshop.

In any case, I just thought of a reason I shouldn't do this. I am pretty sure there would be a violation if someone did send me a completed frame and I sent it back to them... Right? 100% frame sent by mail from one random guy to another...

If someone sent you a 100% frame through the mail then its not on you, its on them, you simply call the ATF and tell them someone mistakenly sent you a completed firearm and ask what you should do.

I actually would never expect that to happen based on the fact that you will need to discuss all the work to be done and have a signed estimate/work order in place before they send you anything.

So I do not see why you would ever need to worry. Follow kcstots advice, get a letter, and go to town!

[kcstott]

If someone sent you a 100% frame through the mail then its not on you, its on them, you simply call the ATF and tell them someone mistakenly sent you a completed firearm and ask what you should do.

I actually would never expect that to happen based on the fact that you will need to discuss all the work to be done and have a signed estimate/work order in place before they send you anything.

So I do not see why you would ever need to worry. Follow kcstots advice, get a letter, and go to town!

Incorrect. a 100% frame has to be received by an FFL either an 01 or an 07.

Receiving it is still a violation. the shipper would be in more trouble then the receiver but trouble is trouble.

I don't let people leave the garage while I work on their weapon.

[dwalker]

Also let me say I have dealt with the ATF many times over the years- mostly in regards to NFA stuff, but back in college I "built" rifles and pistols to sell. I was one step away from a tabletop FFL in 1992/3 when the rumors of how those were going to go away came around. I called the TF and explained what I was doing, how I was doing it, and what "everyone told me" I was doing wrong. The ATF guys were super friendly and knowledgeable and steered me in the right direction.

[dwalker]

Incorrect. a 100% frame has to be received by an FFL either an 01 or an 07.

Receiving it is still a violation. the shipper would be in more trouble then the receiver but trouble is trouble.

I don't let people leave the garage while I work on their weapon.

If you are shipped something that is supposed to be one thing, and you get another, and you notify the ATF as to the receipt, you have not broken a law. You break the law when you know its a firearm- not a paperweight- being sent to you and/or you do not notify the ATF upon receipt. Now CA is a whole other mess, obviously.

[MosinVirus]

Well, at the very least I can call and check. Thanks guys.

[MosinVirus]

If you do go down this road, might I also suggest a CNC engraver of some sort? One stop shopping is nice. Get your blending, checkering, undercut trigger guard, and the name, city/state, with serial number engraved at the same time. That would be worth quite a bit to some.

No space. Otherwise I would look into it

[MosinVirus]

Easier said than done. Lol. Believe me, if there was a way, it would have been done. Have to wait.

[pklin1297]

If and when I win the lottery, I'm opening up shop and hiring you MV!