Polymer80, Spectre Frame

[Kayo Kelly]

I wish sombody besides me would tell him.
He keeps trying to tell me I'm not building it properly.

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[JAE]

Well I went out for some testing today. Did the shim thing but honestly I don't think it should make much of a difference. Sitting down with it and thinking about it led me to believe that the rear with the ejector rocking a little bit has little effect. It's not that far out. For a real determination I need a side by side with an OEM Glock.

So my first test was frustrating. Many FTF, failure to go in battery, etc... After that I cycled it on the bench a LOT and then took some more off the rear guides. It seems the pistol is VERY sensitive to drag on the slide. After this bench work the slide would more consistently go in full battery and lock up the barrel with less force. I was hoping this would do the trick.

Todays test went flawlessly. About 150 rounds and not one FTF, FTE or battery issues. Even tried 10+1 tests. Absolutely no issues. Very pleased.

So I think the lesson here is that these need quite a bit of break in. Quite possibly some extra tuning and filing. Where on the 1911 the rule is go tight; the Spectre wants to be loose. I'm in the process of the second one (G17 slides are barrels are backordered quite a ways) and will see what if I can duplicate it. Meanwhile I'll see if I can get another range day and get a couple hundred more down the pipe.

So for the folks getting frustrated with these I recommend a little more patience. This is new stuff it's going to take a minute to get it dialed.

[fixitsteve]

I have to completely agree. After watching and reading about everyone else's experiences, I sided with loose when cutting the rear rails. I had to fight this mentally, and be super careful not to go too far, but the thinner rear rails have produced a version for me that fires well. I have a complete OEM 22 and it seem the OEM fit is the same or close.

[saki302]

Pick up an actual Glock- the rails as a whole are surprisingly loose.

-Dave

[Kayo Kelly]

How did you loosen the rear rails?
File?

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[saki302]

File.

But the PF940 polymer rails look pretty thin to me already for plastic. Not sure how thin you can make them before they break off.

-Dave

[JAE]

How did you loosen the rear rails?
File?

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Yes. Install the slide, rack the crap out of it, take off slide, high spots will be shiny. Used a 1911 rail file. Little tight but it's a tool worth the money as it's specially designed with safe edges. Really did the trick.

Use a caliper on it. Just like a 1911 but harder to measure the slide and prints not readily available. The plastic squishes a little if it resists your too tight. If it were steel it wouldn't go at all. So it's misleading and you'll tend to make it tight.

Tried milling close to the frame I was scared of making them too thin. That was a mistake once I broke out the caliper I found I was way too thick and had to file quite a but. Run it down the middle of the jig and go deep. Then hand file. Use the locking block as a guide just don't file that.

Had some major FTE with my G24S setup. It's a long slide G24 with a 9mm conversion barrel. Talked to Lone Wolf about it today and they said the 15# recoil spring and some 147 grain, maybe some 124 grain, was the way to go. Glock OEM is 17# and according to them just adequate and pretty stiff. So I'm going to pick up some 15# springs and see what is what.

FWIW they also said they take about 200 rounds to break in (the Lone Wolf setup and OEM as well). So be patient.

[Kayo Kelly]

I already have several hundred rounfs through it. FTF/ FTE and battery issues dont always occor. Its intermittent.

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[Kayo Kelly]

BTW all the parts are available at glockstore.com
G17 slide complete is $400
Lower parts kit $125.

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[igot105]

Since posting these questions, I've received many great comments and they were very helpful. I went ahead and ordered a Polymer80 Spectre frame and just completed the milling process. With the locking block installed, the slide works and slides properly. However, when I install my trigger assembly, something seems to be rubbing under the slide and against my frame making it very difficult to rack the slide. It also locks my slide in the closed position so I'm unable to release the slide from the frame.

1. Is this problem related to the credit card fix,
2. Does anyone know where it may be rubbing (I'm sure it has something to do with the trigger assembly)?

Hoping to complete my Polymer80 frame and look forward to hearing from everyone. Thanks again

[Kayo Kelly]

Yes. Install the slide, rack the crap out of it, take off slide, high spots will be shiny. Used a 1911 rail file. Little tight but it's a tool worth the money as it's specially designed with safe edges. Really did the trick.

Use a caliper on it. Just like a 1911 but harder to measure the slide and prints not readily available. The plastic squishes a little if it resists your too tight. If it were steel it wouldn't go at all. So it's misleading and you'll tend to make it tight.

Tried milling close to the frame I was scared of making them too thin. That was a mistake once I broke out the caliper I found I was way too thick and had to file quite a but. Run it down the middle of the jig and go deep. Then hand file. Use the locking block as a guide just don't file that.

Had some major FTE with my G24S setup. It's a long slide G24 with a 9mm conversion barrel. Talked to Lone Wolf about it today and they said the 15# recoil spring and some 147 grain, maybe some 124 grain, was the way to go. Glock OEM is 17# and according to them just adequate and pretty stiff. So I'm going to pick up some 15# springs and see what is what.

FWIW they also said they take about 200 rounds to break in (the Lone Wolf setup and OEM as well). So be patient.

Well I followed your reccomendations, got my files out, cleaned the lube from the rails, racked the hell out of it and filed using my custom 1911 rail file. Also used my $6 Harbor Freight multi micro files. Made it loose and smooth as butter. Took it to the range last night and put a couple hundred rounds through it. Only 2 FTF FTE. No battery issues.
I noticed during the racking process there was a ribbon of plastic that was cut off by the slide so I filed till it stopped cutting the ribbon. I believe its fixed now. It actually shoots fairly well. Still like metal better though.


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[JAE]

Glad that worked for you! The Glock is a tool your supposed to be able to interchange slides and styles at the drop of a hat. That was the attraction really. Want to shoot 40 S&W? Just drop this slide and barrel on! So it's loose. And nothing like the 1911.

For the record I like the 1911 a LOT better as a project. Just completed my second one in stainless and the slides are so precise to each frame they will neither fit on each other or any other custom made I've tried. Truly a nicer, better tool overall. Fired from first round to the 1xx'th in testing flawlessly.

Which brings us back to the Glock. WTF with all the issues? FTF's, FTE's, general fitment... This is also a tried and proven platform that supposedly works right out of the box (another attraction) and yet most of seem to be having problems. Let's recap the issues (I know of):
1) Most builders are treating them like a 1911 and making them tight expecting them to break in. This is resulting in general frustration. Some of this has to do with the nature of the medium (plastic), some to do with a lack of prints/geometry/ability to measure. Lesson learned is to make it loose. Very loose IMHO.
2) The platform appears to require more break in than a 1911. This is overshadowing the problem.
3) The conversion barrel and long slide models are sensitive to grain weight of the bullet and spring rate. I'll report back on this after some more testing of my G24S with 9mm after I get my 15# spring (stock is 17#). As an aside to this it appears the stock 17# is marginal at best with 115 grain on a G17 and this compounds the issue of fit and function.
4) The "credit card shim fix" is interesting but for the life of me I see no relevance to the failure to go into battery. Perhaps for the FTE but not for FTF. I sit here at my desk with both frames and wobble them around but just don't see the issue. If the gun cocks the trigger, the firing pin works, etc.. Then the rear part of this assembly is good enough to do it's job. I shimmed them tight anyways but I have a feeling this is a red herring and of minor relevance (if any).
5) It may be possible that the disconnect bar is too high. I say this because I noted the failure to go into battery and bench testing/analysis showed that indeed it was rubbing to a pretty high degree. It's important to note that this bar does several things: cocks the trigger, releases the firing pin, pulls on the prigger spring, etc... As a test I tried filing this down a little, being careful to keep the rounded edges, and testing after every little bit. I wound up with almost 1/32" filed off (yes, that is A LOT!). As measured from the small bend in the bar to the final height with a small machinist ruler the OEM one is 5/32" and my modified one is 4/32". The modified one goes into battery with both slides (G17 and G24) MUCH easier than the unmodified. This was the G17 that ran a couple hundred with no failures at all. I should note that both slides are Lone Wolf setups as OEM may differ.

Of all these things #5 is pretty interesting. Did P80 get the trigger pin too high? Am I just not being patent enough with break in? What is the risk of modifying this component by filing it to a lower profile? Obviously if it's too low the trigger will not reset and the firing pin would not be released. Certainly the gun runs much smoother with it a bit lower. My next testing session, time permitting, will involve swapping the slides between the two frames (one with cut down trigger bar) and seeing what is what. Also the different recoil spring in both. The ultimate goal being the reliability and interchangeability the platform is supposed to provide.

Thoughts and feed back on the above items appreciated. I'll post my findings after test days. I appreciate the rest of you doing so.

[JAE]

Forgot to add another known issue: screws for the front locking block can be inserted too far. Observe inside of locking block as screws are installed and make sure they just come flush to inside. Otherwise you can drag on the recoil spring. This is why the red loctite they need to stay put right there.

[Kayo Kelly]

Since posting these questions, I've received many great comments and they were very helpful. I went ahead and ordered a Polymer80 Spectre frame and just completed the milling process. With the locking block installed, the slide works and slides properly. However, when I install my trigger assembly, something seems to be rubbing under the slide and against my frame making it very difficult to rack the slide. It also locks my slide in the closed position so I'm unable to release the slide from the frame.

1. Is this problem related to the credit card fix,
2. Does anyone know where it may be rubbing (I'm sure it has something to do with the trigger assembly)?

Hoping to complete my Polymer80 frame and look forward to hearing from everyone. Thanks again

I strongly recommend you take a look at the quality of your rear rail. Check to be sure it is deep enough and smooth. Check the size of the rail. Be sure there is no lube on it and rack it like crazy. Then remove the slide and look for shiny spots, peeling plastic or spurs. Then file them off and put the slide back on and rack it again. The slide should be easy to remove. I bet it isnt a trigger issue at all. I used my 1911 rail file to file the Spectre. Be sure the rail os the Spectre is smooth and even. No low spots or pits from the drill.

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[f308gt4]

Spectre Grip Chop

Is it possible to cut down the grip on the Polymer80 frame (and still have it look nice) to make it accept Glock 19 magazines?

I have tons of Glock 19 mags, and no 17 mags. It would be nice to have magazine compatibility with what I have. I don't know if they will be coming out with a Glock 19 version, and cutting the grip may be one way to work around it.

Answered my own question.

Not the prettiest job, but looks OK, and functions OK. Need to finish building out the pistol to really do a full test, hopefully soon.

Prior to the chop (measure twice, cut once):



Post chop with G19 mag inserted:



Here it is with a G17 mag for comparison.