Front Sight Members Check In Here!

[bellwilliam]

Hey guys I'm taking the 4 day rifle 1 class pretty soon, I was hoping to get some advice. I currently have a pretty heavy 4-12x scope on my AR, it makes the rifle fatiguing to hold for long periods of time. Is most of the shooting standing or prone? Do you guys bring shooting mats or just lay in the gravel? How many magazines do you bring?

Also, please don't stop buying memberships, I want this place to keep the doors open for at least a few more years!

4-12x scope is way too big/heavy for this class. your arms will be sore after day 1.

one time it was raining lightly. I bought a tarp at Walmart and brought it the next day. Range master wouldn't let me use it for prone shot too sissy....

[DSMeyer]

Being that my buddy and I always drive to Frontsight, we have 4 hours of windshield therapy to ponder about things. The latest speculation was that we've always been told that cash flow is never the problem, but with all of the latest and greatest big and better deals being offered it makes you wonder. So we got of on a tangent about how the good doctor has a tight grasp on the finances, which is probably why investors either step away or have backed out. Hell I wouldn't invest say $500K in something unless I got to look at the financials. I can also bet that there are some affluent members that called him up personally and said "look, what will it take to get this done", but have been given the thumbs down because he will not have total control.
So after hours of brainstorming, my personal conclusion is that the Dr. Did buy the land but financed the original buildings, infrastructure install and building of the paved road. Like all financed items, you got to pay them off, hence the excessive bombardments to buy devalued memberships just to pay the bills and his personal administration costs.
This lead to the ambassadors and higher members of Frontsight "where you'll have a say so as semi quayside benifactors" or whatever the coinage term was. So what does this mean? When the good Dr. decides he done and want to retire or passes he'll appoint a board to run the show? And only then will this board and is members inherit the possible crap fest once the cloak comes off the financial tablet?
I enjoy going to FS and getting great instruction for the classes I attend. I guess I'm a bit jealous as to not have the lack of dignity as to have people follow me blindly while taking away their hard earned cash for the illusion of resort grandeur.
BTW- ibuprofen tablets are no longer available in the first aid kits. So if your aching from the training or dehydration, they are available at the proshop at $.50 a piece (package of 4 for $1.89 including your 40% discount)

[Citizen_B]

I agree, I don't think FS has a cash flow problem from the day to day training revenue / business scheme, but he may very well have a serious problem with past facility debt.

It's a catch-22. If members decide to file a class action lawsuit, it could very well bankrupt FS and I highly doubt they would get full settled payment anyway. At that point there's zero chance of the 'FS Dream' and members who have given Iggy all that cash for it (because they keep paying for latest offers) lose everything. It's a lose-lose for paying members. So, if I had committed so much cash to Iggy now tied up, I'd hope for more new 'members' to keep the game going, so that there is at least a non-zero chance more facilities may be built and FS stays open for more training.

[Muzz]

Piazza's explanations which I've heard from his own mouth over the years have said that the initial purchase of land was $150K which he put on a credit card. The tent was purchased second hand. Some early memberships were bartered for equipment and trucks and other useful items. The road was paid for as cash came in which, he said, ended up costing twice as much as it should have since starting and stopping costs much more than doing the whole project at once. Same for the classroom. This is his main claim for waiting until all the money is available to build the resort. When completed there won't be any debt...the best asset there is. I've seen him pull some shenanigans too with memberships and class procedures. There was no way he could hire and pay for enough instructors to run classes like he used to...hence the buddy system. The loss of items from the pro shop like ammo and magazines which used to be discounted and now are not because they're not IN the pro shop anymore was another money saving move. I've received my money's worth. I think the rough years are behind now. The condo application has been approved so we'll see if the rest materializes.

[bellwilliam]

you do know there were a lot of suckers, umm.. I meant founding members, that paid a LOTS of money....200 people paying $50k each, that's already a 10 million !!

[meritman]

Calgunners, I apologize for the length of this post, but I felt it necessary to confront Dr. Piazza on his latest email about "becoming a President member or else..." Below is a back-and-forth email between myself and Dr. Piazza just yesterday regarding his most recent claim. If anything, I hope it sheds some light on where things are at this point. I tried to keep it professional, but wanted to be direct when necessary:

"Dr. Piazza, I and so very many others, are 100% behind the vision of Dr. Piazza and Front Sight to bring safety, education and and desire for sound and safe firearm-related training and activites to the public at large. I believe you'd agree with this as is evidenced by our continued financial support through membeship upgrades, pro-shop purchases, fun-shoot purchases, etc., as well as the overall time and financial sacrifice we all make to the local Pahrump/Las Vegas economy just by choosing to make the multi-day trip out to Front Sight.
So with this said, I (and many, many other members) are a bit surprised and should I say even somewhat insulted with your latest "offer" to once again pay into your latest and greatest membership upgrade to President for the following reasons:
It comes at a very high cost (to most, all of which have already spent a good deal of money joining and traveling/staying there)
It promises the same perks as all of your recent previous membership upgrades promised (Guardian, Patron, Commander)
There is absolutely NO visual evidence of any progress or follow-through on these past promises (other than words in your emails. I've visited Front Sight for training 2-3 times this year and the same amount of times last year, everything at the facility looks the same)
And lastly, but most importantly, your newest emailed offer basically threatens those of us who have stood behind you and Front Sight for years financially, while continuously spreading the word for new members to join, and taking time out from our families and work schedules to travel to and participate in Front Sight's training, to potentially not be able to take advantage of amenities and other perks which we have all been "promised" time and time again. I'm speaking here of your recent comment sent just today:
"The fact of the matter is we simply do not have enough Condos, RV Spaces, Gun Safe Bonuses, Gun Bonuses and other special offers that we will attach to the Front Sight Resort and Vacation Club's Interval Ownership Offers to give every member the opportunity. Not even close".
Dr. Piazza, I can hardly believe a man of your intelligence would have simply not planned for such a shortcoming. And furthermore, what's next? Will we suddenly receive an email stating that "there simply won't be enough space in all of the promised clubhouses for members to congregate and enjoy?" Or, "there simply won't be enough Front Sight hotel rooms for all paying members and those with Hotel certificates to reserve."
Dr. Piazza, both myself and I'm sure very many more current and future members will continue to support Front Sight and your quest to make it truly the premier Firearms Training institute in the United States. But, putting yourself in our shoes, I would hope you understand the general erosion and lack of faith so many of your diehard members are now beginning to experience with the incessant perception of "empty and meaningless" offers. What would surely help to cure this recent belief among your members is a more meaningful show of Good Faith and progress towards what you've promised us all so many times in the past. Nobody is expecting for you to erect a Front Sight "promised land" overnight, but I must admit we're now entering a "crying wolf" stage with the Front Sight organization, whereby your recent offers and those such as myself, who take advantage of them, are beginning to look like nothing more than pie in the sky.
Please take a moment to let these thoughts resonate among you and your fellow Front Sight executives and investors, so that the rest of us who have made such a contribution to Front Sight's success thus far, can once again look down upon the Front Sight facility as something to be extremely proud of for years and years to come."

DR. PIAZZA REPLY:
"I appreciate hearing from you and that you have been such a faithful member with the courses you have taken. I’m trying to weigh what you have written with the other benefits in your account. You have received additional memberships, certificates and credits all intended to generate cash through sales so there would be no “financial sacrifice” when you come to Front Sight. You have 118 Diamond memberships that have a potential value to you of over $29,000.

There was nothing in my recent email that “threatened” you or your membership in any manner. I’m just giving you a heads up that the outstanding success of our offers has led to the simple fact that 500 condos will be offered to the President members and then the balance offered to the rest. That if you want to be in the first round of opportunity for the Condos, RV slots and other items it would behoove you to be a President.

You infer that we were going to provide a hotel room or condo for each of our 150,000 members. Did you really expect that we were going to provide a one-to-one benefit with each member? You do realize that we are building a 400 room hotel? This hotel, the condos and the RV spaces will be very popular and highly desired. This hotel will be operated like any other hotel on a first come and availability basis. Just because you have a hotel certificate does not guarantee there will be a room available. You will have to plan ahead and make your reservation far ahead.

Don’t forget that we are a training institute with 50,000 people a year passing through. Training is what we offer. These other items are there to help facilitate your stay. Go back to those 118 Diamonds and that should be all the “good faith” you need."

[Muzz]

Well that should provide some juicy tidbits for a while.

[meritman]

Yep, I think there are a whole lot of us who feel the same way and in my opinion, deserve a response straight from Dr. Piazza. Overall, his response and tone seem to suggest a special "screw you, deal with it" to us at the Commander level and below (unless, of course, you pay $5000+ to become a President).

[hardhead]

Then there will be another, new, higher level membership... It never ends.

[DSMeyer]

400 room hotel and condo's! OMG! He is going to need his own peaker unit just to power the facility, and pull power off the main grid directly from the highway. This here is no small nor cheap venture. Fully funded my butt!

[bellwilliam]

Yep, I think there are a whole lot of us who feel the same way

That implies there is more than 1 that believe the hotel / condo will be built ? didn't know those people existed...

I am just surprised they answered your email, and in fact looked your account up..........

[AAShooter]

400 room hotel and condo's! OMG! He is going to need his own peaker unit just to power the facility, and pull power off the main grid directly from the highway. This here is no small nor cheap venture. Fully funded my butt!

Solar . . . lots of room for solar! lol

[tanks]

What puzzles me is why people pay for memberships above Diamond? There is absolutely no advantage that I can see for the other memberships unless one is going to play the Amway game and try to peddle Diamond memberships. One can buy a Diamond membership for about $79, that gives all the training benefits that one needs. Even if a Hotel was present, $6,000 for a Presidential membership is equivalent of 70 nights at the Winery. I just don't see it being a sound financial investment.

[AAShooter]

What puzzles me is why people pay for memberships above Diamond? There is absolutely no advantage that I can see for the other memberships unless one is going to play the Amway game and try to peddle Diamond memberships. One can buy a Diamond membership for about $79, that gives all the training benefits that one needs. Even if a Hotel was present, $6,000 for a Presidential membership is equivalent of 70 nights at the Winery. I just don't see it being a sound financial investment.

If you want to train at FS Alaska, Diamond doesn't get you there.

[XDJYo]

one time it was raining lightly. I bought a tarp at Walmart and brought it the next day. Range master wouldn't let me use it for prone shot too sissy....

I will quote what my Range Master said to me when I brought a blanket for the cold Nevada mornings.

"Suck it up Butter-Cup!!!"

Signed, "Blanket-Boy"