*NEW* Front Sight Members Check-In Here!

[GasPasser77]

Garv, thanks for sending me to the right thread. I never venture outside the handgun forum. Even though I got scammed, I learned to invest more money into training then buying new guns.

[acegunnr]

I just added some links to the 2nd post of this thread to keep them all in one place. Let me know if there are others I should add. Thanks!


Facebook Group Organizing a Class Action Lawsuit

Front Sight page concerning the January, 2022 Restructuring

PDFs of the Various Front Sight Membership Offer Letters

[mitori]

Google "Front Sight Receivership" and you'll see this has all happened before.

http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/showthread.php?409788-Front-Sight-Goes-Into-Receivership

This is a forum post from over 12 years ago; anything sound familiar?

"I am going to do my best to give a quick and dirty summary.

1) When Frontsight was first starting up, they offered various memberships. The memberships ranged in price from thousands of $$ to hundreds of thousands of $$.
2) Over time, the enterprise wasn't moving along as planned.
3) Frontsight slashed membership prices to attract more people.
4) This crushed the $$ value of the memberships bought by early adopters.
5) They filed a class action suit.
6) They got a judgment.
7) Part of the judgment required that a fund be created to repay the plaintiffs.
8) Some of the plaintiffs have taken money from that fund. (the $830K)
9) Apparently Piazza thinks that equates to "pocketing" money undeservedly.

Seems like FS is half-training ground/half upside down Ponzi scheme."

In this thread they quote an article from The Pahrump Times:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/92298-lawsuit-front-sight.html

Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.

[Sam1234]

I don't have facebook, but I definitely want to join in. Please keep me posted.

If you'r interested you can easily open a Face Book page account. While I do have a Face Book account I don't think I have posted anything in years, and I believe I have 3 friends.

It does allow me access to info like the Front Sight Lawsuit page.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

This 100%

I wouldn't mind spending a per/day fee to take classes. I also wouldn't have minded the yearly membership. This is because I've been out there several times a year and still think it would be good value and really enjoyed the training.

The issue is exactly what Damon1272 pointed out. They offered a membership upgrade with promises that they immediately removed once they took our money. That is what I am not happy with. If he was honest upfront and said these are the changes we will be making in the future I would not have upgraded my membership.

I think he should have offered two types of memberships moving forward. Either offered the monthly membership that would allow the membership holder to pay the monthly fee and take as many classes as they wanted over the course of the year. That would be great for the people who go often. The other option would be for the people who have memberships but have never gone, or go once a year, or every other year, etc. to pay the per/day fee when they eventually got out there to take a class. I understand peopel wouldn't have been happy with that either, but it's better than what he's doing now and would have created less of a rift.

Also, the people who are defending Piazza in all of this saying we took advantage of his generosity over the years and no way the place could have survived with all the offers and promises he made over the years, well that's his fault. He was the one who made the offers and promises that weren't financially feasible over time. That just means he was an awful businessman.

[SG29736]

A lot of people knowingly supported a con artist but were confidant that he wouldn't scam them, for some reason. Now they are shocked and morally outraged only after they themselves were conned but didn't care about the people who were previously conned.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Bottom line: what he did was illegal, and it hurt the loyal members the most. It's not illegal to set fair prices according to new market rates, even if it prices some current customers out. It's not illegal to go bankrupt because you can't honor your existing contracts. It is illegal to lie and steal. He offered contracts and collected payment knowing full well that he had no intention of upholding his end, and now he's holding our assets for ransom. He needs to answer for his crimes.

And the crimes are his alone - the facilities, staff and instructors are incredible. The staff and instructors are victims of his crimes just as much as we are.

Trust me, I agree with you 100%. If I didn't I wouldn't have filed a claim to dispute the charge on my card for the upgrade.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This is not over with yet, it remains to be seen what will transpire down the road a little ways.

All this thread will do is give the naysayers more opportunity to bash anyone who participated at Front Sight.

I am not defending Piazza. He made some serious mistakes, and they were some pretty stupid mistakes IMHO.

But he also created the Largest Firearms Training Facility in the world and has managed to keep it afloat for 25 years.

All I can say is it's not over til it's over.

Randy

[Flamingo.central]

I just added some links to the 2nd post of this thread to keep them all in one place. Let me know if there are others I should add. Thanks!


Facebook Group Organizing a Class Action Lawsuit

Front Sight page concerning the January, 2022 Restructuring

PDFs of the Various Front Sight Membership Offer Letters

Can these files be made available to people that don't have a facebook account?

[wilit]

They've been talking about developing that property for the last decade and a half and it looks like not much has been done since. Shame, since it's a great concept with apparently a lot of buy-in from members, but little movement. That really seems to lead to either gross mis-management or scam.

Also, it's been a while since I looked at their website. Not surprised it was written in what looks like HTML 2.0 and never changed since. Gotta love a company asking for people to invest in a business, yet they don't invest in something as simple as their website.

[Divehobo]

Can someone please paste here the contents of the emails? I didn't receive any.

use https://www.frontsight.com/redo/ to start getting emails again. I just reactivated last night

[Sam1234]

Great response

Does anyone know Greg Raven, Apple Valley, CA?

He posted his response to the good DR here: https://static.one-armed-man.com/202...-response.html

This is one of the best and most complete responses I have read.

[xSlapshotx]

Does anyone know Greg Raven, Apple Valley, CA?

He posted his response to the good DR here: https://static.one-armed-man.com/202...-response.html

This is one of the best and most complete responses I have read.

Very good response, thanks for posting. Pretty much sums up my feelings.

[Rcjackrabbit]

All members deserve every bit of the financial and emotional pain they are getting.

When you touch fire, it is supposed to burn.

It was obvious what he is. The fact that you didn't see it should make you ashamed.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

This is not over with yet, it remains to be seen what will transpire down the road a little ways.

All this thread will do is give the naysayers more opportunity to bash anyone who participated at Front Sight.

I am not defending Piazza. He made some serious mistakes, and they were some pretty stupid mistakes IMHO.

But he also created the Largest Firearms Training Facility in the world and has managed to keep it afloat for 25 years.

All I can say is it's not over til it's over.

Randy

If Piazza was forced out and someone else took over I'd be interested in continuing. But have a hard time doing so while he is still in charge. I'd have no problem paying a daily use fee for classes, etc., but not with Dr. Pizza at the helm. I cannot at this point in good faith give FS my credit card to have on file to charge me monthly dues wondering if the place will still be in business the next time I go out there for a class. What will stop them from continuing to charge us even if the place gets shut down?

I also worry that the place is going to start to decline as far as upkeep, etc. I bet they'll close the pro shop soon, the new food truck will soon be gone, the great instructors will leave and what will be left? Poorly maintained grounds and facilities, crappy instruction and overpriced ammo that we are forced to buy.