*NEW* Front Sight Members Check-In Here!

[Jedi54]

Also, knowing that some of the instructors are here on CGN.... THANK YOU!

there's been a few of us on here throughout the years but we usually laid low.
Thank YOU.

[eaglemike]

That was my initial read as well BUT on the bottom of pg 84 it mentions every former FS member will get one free day of Q training for themselves and a guest.
Now, I have no idea what the new curriculum will look like and if their class are mainly 1 or 2 day courses but at least some of us might be able to get down there to at least check it out and see if it's something that might be worth the cost.

While the costs are definitely more than we're used it's actually sort of in line with what other schools are charging.
I'm thinking of taking a Sheepdog Response class in Dec and that's 3 days for $900.
The Protector 2 after that is $1,300.

guess we'll have to see what PF brings to the table and if it'll be on par with school like that or GunSite.

If I could get that for every certificate I'm supposed to own, and all the undesignated memberships, I could train for a long time. I'm thinking they will not do that though.

[SWalt]

The lowest tier membership that everyone converts to with no fees or costs doesn't include any classes at all. Well, that's my reading anyhow...its basically access to 2 ranges and done.

Training classes begin at higher membership levels and all have annual fees and daily fees (with a % discount for a year or two)

The primary thing that was always attractive about Front Sight for me personally was that I could generally find any class I wanted to take at a time that was convenient for me. But with the extra induced costs, its simply easier for me to go to Gunsite and sleep in my own bed every night.

Ultimately, the big loss for me was the ability to arrange for groups of people to go to a basic 4 day of some flavor at least twice a year. Anywhere from 4 to 10 people and I would supply any newbies with a course certificate. If they liked it and wanted to continue, I would give them a membership. These trips were amazing introductions and refreshers for my family. I would happily attend basic classes to support them...but doing it for thousands of dollars a year in fees...that's a tough pill to swallow.

I think that's a huge part of what anyone who has put together a great gun school like Gunsite, Thunder Ranch et al has never understood. Front Sight was a place that you could bring the family and friends and have a comraderie together that you could do over and over again with modest costs. Those modest costs generated a ton of money. It will take a group with a vision along those lines to keep a facility as large as FS up and running to the scale of students that FS accommodated over the years.

Restructuring without a Ponzi scheme but including modest fees could be just as successful...

As slimy as Iggy has always been (plus remember I go back all the way to the original Bakersfield days) he had a great vision and he did pull it off. The only thing causing it to fail at this stage is his greed and self-denial over where the root problems lay.

Bingo!!

[cxr]

Where are you seeing that he is the owner and marketing director?

LOL new BACKSIGHT resort

[Spartan301]

Bingo!!

"Ditto!"

[Citizen_B]

I'm not convinced yet that the lowest level PF membership is only a flat range with no instructional program. Their pamphlet does say "with basic instruction", whatever that means. I'm guessing they're being intentionally vague at this early point. If it is really only a flat range, that is a terrible pricing structure and big FU to FS members. Why would anyone go out there for that. Even the one free day of Q Academy training is going to be a hard sell unless it's some mind blowing experience. Then it's gone and the member is left with the choice of spending big bucks or dropping membership.

Edit: And just to clarify, I don't think PF owes FS members anything, because they don't. But they do have a prime opportunity to make a good impression with a large existing member base who are going to be their first generation marketers. First impressions matter. Maybe I've got it backwards and PF has a completely different business model in mind.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

How long before Brad Ackman writes a book about getting canned from Front Sight? But where will he sell it without a Pro Shop to display it in? And what's going to happen to his house Piazza promised him?

[Matt P]

I believe his contribution to getting firearm owners trained to be safer and more responsible outweigh his transgressions.

There simply is no comparison.

This is my opinion coming from what I invested in a membership mid 2000. This was about a $1000 and did not include many advanced courses.
I respect others spent more on his promises and such have their own opinion of IP and those contributions.

[beanz2]

As slimy as Iggy has always been (plus remember I go back all the way to the original Bakersfield days) he had a great vision and he did pull it off. The only thing causing it to fail at this stage is his greed and self-denial over where the root problems lay.

This I agree 100%.

LOL new BACKSIGHT resort

Oh, no! Not another butt stuff thread.

[beanz2]

I don't think PF owes FS members anything, because they don't. But they do have a prime opportunity to make a good impression with a large existing member base who are going to be their first generation marketers. First impressions matter. Maybe I've got it backwards and PF has a completely different business model in mind.

[Jedi54]

Citizen,
I really hope it's something more than just two flat ranges where people can plink. That you can get at just about any gun range.
Maybe it'll be very basic practice reps. I'm envisioning something similar to supervised dry practice that we had in the mornings or lunch. The staff walks you through a few things but for the most part you're going at your pace.
Probably doing some simple reps from different distances throughout the day .

But your guess is as good as mine.

[SWalt]

I'm not convinced yet that the lowest level PF membership is only a flat range with no instructional program. Their pamphlet does say "with basic instruction", whatever that means. I'm guessing they're being intentionally vague at this early point. If it is really only a flat range, that is a terrible pricing structure and big FU to FS members. Why would anyone go out there for that. Even the one free day of Q Academy training is going to be a hard sell unless it's some mind blowing experience. Then it's gone and the member is left with the choice of spending big bucks or dropping membership.

Edit: And just to clarify, I don't think PF owes FS members anything, because they don't. But they do have a prime opportunity to make a good impression with a large existing member base who are going to be their first generation marketers. First impressions matter. Maybe I've got it backwards and PF has a completely different business model in mind.

You make very good points. In bankruptcy, all previous contracts are null and void. Same goes if you buy an established business. New owners are not beholden to old contracts. Remember though, PF is really a brand new "start up". They do not know WTF they are doing, how to run a successful business and its a $19 million gamble at this point. I really hope they make it but I also hope they keep FS's mission of training as many people as they can.

[mej16489]

That was my initial read as well BUT on the bottom of pg 84 it mentions every former FS member will get one free day of Q training for themselves and a guest.
Now, I have no idea what the new curriculum will look like and if their class are mainly 1 or 2 day courses but at least some of us might be able to get down there to at least check it out and see if it's something that might be worth the cost.

While the costs are definitely more than we're used it's actually sort of in line with what other schools are charging.
I'm thinking of taking a Sheepdog Response class in Dec and that's 3 days for $900.
The Protector 2 after that is $1,300.

guess we'll have to see what PF brings to the table and if it'll be on par with school like that or GunSite.

Don't forget to add annual maintenance fees into your calculations.

[Jedi54]

I know it's been mentioned before and maybe there's even a dedicated thread for it but I'll ask here for now.

If you won't be training at FS going forward, where have you chosen to train or where will you go?
I'll start.

Just signed up for a 3 day class with Sheepdog Response to take their Protector 1 course. I get the feeling much of it will be review for me but I am quite interested on working some of their hand to hand skills as that school prioritizes that quite a bit and if I'm honest, it's something I don't train often enough.
Plus it's a pre-requisite for Protector 2 which sounds like a lot of fun.

I still plan on cashing in my 1 free day of "Q Training" at PF at some point but I'm making plans to continue to train elsewhere to try and keep my skills sharp.

[dad4mnc]

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/prairiefire-to-acquire-front-sight/