*NEW* Front Sight Members Check-In Here!

[SWalt]

You can expect that Front Sight to be purchased for $19+ Million by Prairie Fire.
No-one else will be paying anymore than that and they have plans for up to 1,000 RV Spots, No Hotel or Casino. Time Share Villa Condos in the way distant future. Reconfigured Ranges on some for Competitions. Sintered Ammunition proposed using on the Ranges. Many things I am not at Liberty to say at this point. Expect it to Happen No later than January 1st, 2023 because they want all this through Bankruptcy to be reconciled September 30th, November 18th, and December 1st dates for various actions. Expect it - Plan on it.

PF really thinks it has a real winner eh? I wonder what % of FS membership are they planning on retaining? You got to remember that a lot of the memberships were purchased by people in the hope of going 1 day. Then there are those who live across the country who have to add airfare on top of the cost of taking a class. Also a lot of members who have a budget and took advantage of a low cost membership making financial sense to them. Lots of "to be determined" memberships outstanding I'm sure (I still have 6, or had 6) but they get washed away. I hope PF accurately predicted how many members they will retain in their business plan and have a contingent plan of replacing lost members. And if they want to retain former members they better make their free "no cost" 2 yrs $200 membership akin to the normal FS basic class experience otherwise you'll lose more members. Perhaps they should forget about the non lead ammo too, another costly item added to the tab.

I do hope PF succeeds, it beats bulldozing the facility.

[Citizen_B]

PF really thinks it has a real winner eh? I wonder what % of FS membership are they planning on retaining? You got to remember that a lot of the memberships were purchased by people in the hope of going 1 day. Then there are those who live across the country who have to add airfare on top of the cost of taking a class. Also a lot of members who have a budget and took advantage of a low cost membership making financial sense to them. Lots of "to be determined" memberships outstanding I'm sure (I still have 6, or had 6) but they get washed away. I hope PF accurately predicted how many members they will retain in their business plan and have a contingent plan of replacing lost members. And if they want to retain former members they better make their free "no cost" 2 yrs $200 membership akin to the normal FS basic class experience otherwise you'll lose more members. Perhaps they should forget about the non lead ammo too, another costly item added to the tab.

I do hope PF succeeds, it beats bulldozing the facility.

It's going to be interesting to see how PF does the first year or two. I think they definitely need to offer a basic intro class or skill builder under their lowest membership tier. I think there's a lot of FS people who would partake in that, and then you have customers onsite to see their higher level course offerings. If they keep prices as proposed past promotional period, they aren't going to retain many seasoned FS members, unless the PF experience really is unique and top shelf. Seems like they may have some focus on hosting national competitions.

I noticed on the FS schedule website that classes in Dec and beyond have been removed. Definitely a sign of what's coming. With that piece of info, I feel pretty confident classes in Sept/Oct/Nov will be honored.

[Matt P]

Does anyone know the number of members willing to spend $500 a year maintenance and the other per day fees?
There could be a sizable amount who have displayed a continued interest despite the yearly and other fees.
PF must have done their homework and see that this opportunity at the current structure will work for them.
Why else invest 19 mill into this.
That group has considerable means and experience. They wouldn’t venture into this at the amount it will cost someone if they were not confident they can make it work.

There must be big plans for the future of that location that could go beyond what they are sharing right now.

I am sure a evaluation of the property worth has been done. I would imagine by whatever banking/financial institution will be loaning the money.

[Doctor_Chicago]

PF is using Front Sight evaluation of the Appraisal Done January 19th, 2022 of about $25 Million. They are funded through a Venture Capital Group and have plenty of money behind them as reported to me from an Insider at PF.

[Doctor_Chicago]

If frangible ammunition is mandatory, that would nearly double the cost. I’m definitely out if that is the case. Imagine trying to find frangible 6.5 Creedmoor ammo. Finding non-magnetic 5.45x39 was challenging enough.

Are you in the legal negotiations, Doctor?



I had Precision Rifle planned in November, but I held off on paying my $100 daily fee. I’m now glad I did.

Are you in the legal negotiations, Doctor?

I am involved in many aspects of this currently as the Dynamics keep changing and whether I stay involved or step away is just a matter of negotiations with various parties.

[Matt P]

Thank you for your responses Doc. We are fortunate to have you responding in this thread area.

[acegunnr]

yeah, I'd never mentioned it here publicly before though I had dropped a few small hints here and there over the years though.
Figure at this point, it was okay to share.

J-

I feel your sentiment and it was a pleasure working alongside you as well.

Thanks for your contribution to this forum and your help in keeping the information about Front Sight factual amid all the BS.

Go Team Charlie!

[Jedi54]

Team Charlie for Life!
that was a fun couple days out on the range.

Thanks Ace, I always considered myself a student first and an Instructor 2nd so any chance I had to help out on here I tried my best.

[beanz2]

I am involved in many aspects of this currently as the Dynamics keep changing and whether I stay involved or step away is just a matter of negotiations with various parties.

Thank you for your insider viewpoint. I had the feeling you know a lot more than the rest of us.

J-

I feel your sentiment and it was a pleasure working alongside you as well.

You are an instructor too, ace?

[mej16489]

The lowest tier membership that everyone converts to with no fees or costs doesn't include any classes at all. Well, that's my reading anyhow...its basically access to 2 ranges and done.

Training classes begin at higher membership levels and all have annual fees and daily fees (with a % discount for a year or two)

The primary thing that was always attractive about Front Sight for me personally was that I could generally find any class I wanted to take at a time that was convenient for me. But with the extra induced costs, its simply easier for me to go to Gunsite and sleep in my own bed every night.

Ultimately, the big loss for me was the ability to arrange for groups of people to go to a basic 4 day of some flavor at least twice a year. Anywhere from 4 to 10 people and I would supply any newbies with a course certificate. If they liked it and wanted to continue, I would give them a membership. These trips were amazing introductions and refreshers for my family. I would happily attend basic classes to support them...but doing it for thousands of dollars a year in fees...that's a tough pill to swallow.

I think that's a huge part of what anyone who has put together a great gun school like Gunsite, Thunder Ranch et al has never understood. Front Sight was a place that you could bring the family and friends and have a comraderie together that you could do over and over again with modest costs. Those modest costs generated a ton of money. It will take a group with a vision along those lines to keep a facility as large as FS up and running to the scale of students that FS accommodated over the years.

Restructuring without a Ponzi scheme but including modest fees could be just as successful...

As slimy as Iggy has always been (plus remember I go back all the way to the original Bakersfield days) he had a great vision and he did pull it off. The only thing causing it to fail at this stage is his greed and self-denial over where the root problems lay.

[outofstateboomerfudd]

I think that's a huge part of what anyone who has put together a great gun school like Gunsite, Thunder Ranch et al has never understood. Front Sight was a place that you could bring the family and friends and have a comraderie together that you could do over and over again with modest costs. Those modest costs generated a ton of money.

Because Morton's doesn't want to be a Golden Corral doesn't mean they don't understand the buffet restaurant concept.

[Mezcalfud]

Yeah, I can't afford to take my family to Morton's, there are 4 of us so I am priced out.

[Mezcalfud]

Also, knowing that some of the instructors are here on CGN.... THANK YOU!

[SWalt]

Thank you for your responses Doc. We are fortunate to have you responding in this thread area.

Yup, even though he can't divulge exactly what he does or doesn't know. I just hope he is not Dr Gary Miller, unsecured debt holder of $21 million!

[Jedi54]

The lowest tier membership that everyone converts to with no fees or costs doesn't include any classes at all. Well, that's my reading anyhow...its basically access to 2 ranges and done.

That was my initial read as well BUT on the bottom of pg 84 it mentions every former FS member will get one free day of Q training for themselves and a guest.
Now, I have no idea what the new curriculum will look like and if their class are mainly 1 or 2 day courses but at least some of us might be able to get down there to at least check it out and see if it's something that might be worth the cost.

While the costs are definitely more than we're used it's actually sort of in line with what other schools are charging.
I'm thinking of taking a Sheepdog Response class in Dec and that's 3 days for $900.
The Protector 2 after that is $1,300.

guess we'll have to see what PF brings to the table and if it'll be on par with school like that or GunSite.