*NEW* Front Sight Members Check-In Here!

[acegunnr]

Planning another group trip in March. We did three last year. If anything, this recent drama is spurring those who never or made very little use of their memberships finally get off their duffs and GO!

[ARFrog]

So let me see if I have this straight:

1) if I am a "lover (sucker??) of FS", I can pay $75/ day for classes plus background fee, get new funny money, get a Gold Status "Marshall Dillon" pin, and be able to will this love child to others. I will also get private training at $25 to $425/day depending on the depths of my initial love for FS.

2) if I am not a "lover of FS", I can remain/revert to my previous position before unilateral changes were made and pay yearly $50 background fee.

WWMAS...(what would my accountant say)?

[dustyy]

Different People, Different Motivations

Buying a &
$100 or $200 membership and taking a 4 day class is smart. Especially for newer shooters.
Iggy is the face and Frontman for Frontsight, but he is not Front Sight. Front Sight is it's membership, instructors, and staff.

^ This. There are many reasons for being involved in , and tolerating, this clown show. I bought my membership as much to bring new shooters as for myself. I've only taken 10 classes in 20 years... but I've given knowledge to many people who could not otherwise afford it. It was obvious to me from day one that the business model was a risk. That's why I always told people "This is a pyramid scheme to benefit the 2nd Amendment." When you say that, people get it.

[acegunnr]

So let me see if I have this straight:

1) if I am a "lover (sucker??) of FS, I can pay $75/ day for classes plus background fee, get new funny money, get a Gold Status "Marshall Dillon" pin, and be able to will this love child to others. I will also get private training at $25 to $425/day depending on the depths of my initial love for FS.

2) if I am not a "lover of FS", I can remain revert to my previous position before unilateral changes were made and pay yearly $50 background fee.

WWMAS...(what would my accountant say)?

Yep. So I read the last email, actually skimmed it to get to the meat, but that looks essentially right.

I'll be in the number 2 camp if he doesn't add any stipulations and it really is just like "before".

But then I'm sure the marketing drama will continue. Hopefully, the trip reports from folks going there will assure us that the training hasn't changed much. That is what it all comes down to, regardless of what the armchair FS "members" try to opine with their self-righteous ramblings that have been oft-repeated through the years like we haven't heard it all before (there is a really long thread somewhere...).

[-hanko]

^ This. There are many reasons for being involved in , and tolerating, this clown show. I bought my membership as much to bring new shooters as for myself. I've only taken 10 classes in 20 years... but I've given knowledge to many people who could not otherwise afford it. It was obvious to me from day one that the business model was a risk. That's why I always told people "This is a pyramid scheme to benefit the 2nd Amendment." When you say that, people get it.

I'd call it more of a pyramid scheme to benefit Dr. Piazza. Do a bit of research on Scientology.

[dustyy]

I'd call it more of a pyramid scheme to benefit Dr. Piazza. Do a bit of research on Scientology.

Both can be true-- and probably are!

[xSlapshotx]

I'd call it more of a pyramid scheme to benefit Dr. Piazza. Do a bit of research on Scientology.

[Citizen_B]

I still have questions:

1) Is the requirement to purchase FS ammo gone? I suspect yes as it wasn't mentioned as a requirement.

2) Do new students who are given certificates (either from Gold or non-Gold members) have to pay the $75/day to attend? The email says all new students, so I'm suspecting yes. This would be a real damper on bringing in new students on a try and see approach.

3) Are the memberships in non-Gold member's accounts going to be honored with free for life training as before, or will the new member be required to be "Gold" and pay the daily fees? I'm not sure on this one, as he says all will be back to how it was, while at the same time saying all new students have to pay the fees.

I suspect over time Piazza will erode the benefit of credits/patronage points, maybe even remove the ability to pay background checks with them, and the only real value of the old memberships will be fee-less training (maybe). I have to say, I don't think Naish planned this long ago. I think he really did want to force all members into the "Gold" pricing scheme, but got major heat and walked it back to what's here now. The incentive to "upgrade" to Gold is very weak. He'll need to juice his sales pitch way up to pull members into the new pricing model. $75/day is actually still too much IMO. I think he could run the place sustainably with way less because of the high volume of students. He should be focusing on side things that would actually be profitable/sustainable, like a real food option onsite etc.

[Citizen_B]

Was all of this a new scheme to reset all of the memberships/funny money he gave away for nothing?

I think it originally was, but the plan backfired and he had to honor the old terms for existing members, while putting all new members under the new fee-based terms. Ironically, the new terms are at least on the track to sustainability. The old terms is a train wreck of a business model.

[acegunnr]

https://vimeo.com/670526348

This video is a couple of weeks old and is one of two videos (the other video is in the quoted link above) that I know of that Rick Green posted about the Front Sight restructuring debacle. I am really interested to see if he will come back on board and if so, that may be a good indication of the future of FS.

[Snoopy47]

The whole thing will go belly up. Creditors or Tax Authorities will take possession of it, and some lucky SOB will acquire it in an asset forfeiture auction all to himself.

At best, the new owner would be given a blank slate, starting from a balanced debt position (if at all) and could start fresh with a business model that can sustain itself.

[rodralig]

Would see how it goes... I am NOT a "Gold Star" member, so, curious on how I would get treated.

Heading late morning tomorrow for a 3-day private class from Monday.


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[damon1272]

I can really see him squeezing non gold star members by restricting training, scheduling of classes and anything else he can do to get people to quit or switch over to gold star.

[Jedi54]

Ace when's your trip to FS.
Looks like I'm there with 6 friends on 3/25.

[rodralig]

I can really see him squeezing non gold star members by restricting training, scheduling of classes and anything else he can do to get people to quit or switch over to gold star.

That is my guess...

I was calling the Concierge this morning - and it was a pain to get in contact. Caller #9... 8... 7... 4... 3... 2... then back to 6... Lost about an hour of wait time being sent in circles by some phone system.

Up until I found the direct line using Google-Fu and got connected in 3-rings.

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