Xtreme 230gr RN problem

[p1choco]

How is more flare going to help if his seater is too tight?

Just to be clear, the sizing die sizes the case. That's what sets the diameter of the case and case mouth. The seater die should only be seating the bullet to a specified depth unless you are adding a crimp during the same step. Prior to seating it is common to flare the case to prevent what you see happening to the OP. At this point, I'm curious to know what your process is.

[drdarrin@sbcglobal.net]

I bought some of these from the group buy a little while ago. . I usually load. Zero, delta or Montana gold. .

I don't flare the case mouth for these bullets. I never had this problem.

I wonder if the OP trimmed his cases and left the case mouth sharp?

Or perhaps his seater die bore is too tight. If so, then no amount of flare will help because the bore constriction will close the case mouth right up.

Are you suggesting that the OP chamfered the outside of the case mouths enough to cause them to shave the copper plating from the base of the bullet to it's fully seated position? While I suppose that is possible, I would be surprised if that was the case. If OP is doing that, he would be the first reloader I've ever heard of who chamfers the outside of his case mouths to that degree.

This thread is about Xtreme bullets specifically. They have round bases that do not require a flare. A straight case mouth will allow the base of these bullets to slip through without shaving unless 1. It is sharp or 2. The die is constricting the case mouth as the bullet is seated. If that is the case then no amount of flare will help because the die will immediately close the flare. Backing out the die will sometimes help if the bore is tapered, but then you'll lave to crimp in a separate step.

These bullets do not have round bases nor are they tapered like a boattail. The edges of the base are radiused. To your point, that make it easier for them to seat but it doesn't eliminate the need to flare the case mouth slightly. Just because you don't have to with your dies doesn't mean that the next person doesn't, with his dies.

How is more flare going to help if his seater is too tight?

If his seater is too tight? Are you suggesting that at the point where the seater stem contacts the nose of the bullet and starts forcing it into the case, that the die body has already started crimping the case? While possible, I doubt it. And it's easy enough to find out if thats the case.

OP, measure the OD of the case at the mouth after sizing. Put your seating/crimp die in the press and back it out 1 full turn. Run that same piece of brass thru it. If the OD is smaller, then J-Cats guess is correct. Otherwise, that's not your problem.

OP, try this. Take one of your cases and set one of these bullets on it. If it sits on top of the case mouth and not slightly inside of it, you are going to shave bullets when you seat them. Be they lead, plated or jacketed. If that's the case, add some flare. That is why that feature is built into every straight wall die set I've ever heard of.

Edit: One last observation/question. OP, You're using a progressive press, correct? If not, how did you manage to create so many obviously unsatisfactory rounds without catching them while in process?

[Sig226]

How is more flare going to help if his seater is too tight?

It won't. However, adjusting for slightly more bell should take 30 seconds and prove the cause one way or another.


If it doesn't, take a look at how the seating die is configured.


Process of elimination starting with the most likely culprit.

[Bastard]

I would be willing to bet that it is the expander die - especially since not all of those bullets were shaved, if you look at least one of them the case appears to be crushed.

also since you are apparently using mixed brass, you are going to have to verify that you are getting a sufficient bell on all your brass - they are going to be different lengths & thicknesses.

another though would be to keep brass in all the stations when setting the dies.

[xtremetib]

How is more flare going to help if his seater is too tight?

This!

I had the exact same issue with xtreme 45 acp HP bullets and the lee carbide 4 die set no matter how much flare the bullet seating/crimping die
would close up the flare with exact same results
I had to back the die way out and tighten the bullet seat way up to solve this and then crimp in the next station

but no issue with berrys or other brands that had more taper on the base of the bullet

[p1choco]

I was having a hard time wrapping my mind around a "tight" seater. It's not so much that it's tight, its that it's not adjusted right.

[J-cat]

Are you suggesting that the OP chamfered the outside of the case mouths enough to cause them to shave the copper plating from the base of the bullet to it's fully seated position?

No that's not what I'm suggesting.

When one trims a case, it leaves the case mouth sharp on the inside and outside. The inside is what shaves copper. That's why we debur the outside and the inside of the case mouth after we trim.

[J-cat]

These bullets do not have round bases

Yes they do. Either you don't use them or you're blind.

[J-cat]

If his seater is too tight? Are you suggesting that at the point where the seater stem contacts the nose of the bullet and starts forcing it into the case, that the die body has already started crimping the case? While possible, I doubt it.

Not only possible, but probable. At least two people posting in this thread have observed this with their dies.

[J-cat]

The reason this occurs is because these Xtreme bullets are .4525" and not .4510" like factory FMJ for which the dies are designed. A .451" bullet plus the case wall fits just right in the seater die bore. But increase the diameter of the bullet or the case wall and add manufacturing tolerances into the mix and you might have a problem.

I use a Redding Competition Seater and crimp using a separate die. I don't flare the case mouth. The base has enough radius to slip into the case unless the case mouth is dented.

[p1choco]

Not only possible, but probable. At least two people posting in this thread have observed this with their dies.

And it seems as though all three of you did not have your dies adjusted properly.

This video shows how to properly seat and crimp in the same stroke.

https://Seating Die how to set up: h...be/5NZkIqfwZDQ

There are 1000 ways to skin a cat but this way will get you through without any problems. Personally I seat and crimp separately.

[p1choco]

The reason this occurs is because these Xtreme bullets are .4525" and not .4510" like factory FMJ for which the dies are designed. A .451" bullet plus the case wall fits just right in the seater die bore. But increase the diameter of the bullet or the case wall and add manufacturing tolerances into the mix and you might have a problem.

I use a Redding Competition Seater and crimp using a separate die. I don't flare the case mouth. The base has enough radius to slip into the case unless the case mouth is dented.

Now we're talking!!! I'm totally on board with that. But i think your sizing die sizes a little big at the mouth. That 15thou might still be enough to strip the plating unless the mouth has a slight flare.

[xtremetib]

And it seems as though all three of you did not have your dies adjusted properly.

This video shows how to properly seat and crimp in the same stroke.

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Thank you for teaching me not assume

I have been reloading for a while now long before you tube could teach me how to set up a press and never had and issue with the lee dies with all 15,000 to 20,000 bullets that have been thru it until I got my first batch of xtreme 45 230 GR HP and it only me 10 to 15 rounds to figure out the issue.

WHICH WAS THE DIE WAS TAKING THE FLARE OUT OF THE CASE LONG BEFORE IT GOT TOO CRIMP DEPTH

So to fix this I had to back the die out an abnormal amount and crimp in the next station
and then the next time I was at the reloading shop I picked up a different set of dies

[Joefear7]

I had this happen once using the Extreme 230 gr rn. I had my bell settings set using once fired WWB brass. When I started using some Federal once Fired the brass was harder and took less of the bell. All I had to do was tighten the die down an eighth of a turn and it's been good to go since.

[p1choco]

Thank you for teaching me not assume

I have been reloading for a while now long before you tube could teach me how to set up a press and never had and issue with the lee dies with all 15,000 to 20,000 bullets that have been thru it until I got my first batch of xtreme 45 230 GR HP and it only me 10 to 15 rounds to figure out the issue.

WHICH WAS THE DIE WAS TAKING THE FLARE OUT OF THE CASE LONG BEFORE IT GOT TOO CRIMP DEPTH

So to fix this I had to back the die out an abnormal amount and crimp in the next station
and then the next time I was at the reloading shop I picked up a different set of dies

Sorry. This doesn't make sense to me. If you loaded so many rounds with a Lee seating die then all of a sudden have a issue with Extreme bullets... The Lee seating die would start crimping at the same depth no matter what bullet your using. If you had it set for FMJ then tried to seat hollow point then obviously there is going to be some issus as crimping the hollow point would start before its fully seated where an FMJ would have already been seated. It could have been a bad die for all i know, but seeing as you have been loading far before Youtube, you are indeed a handloading expert. Who am I to question you.