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  • #16
    J-cat
    Calguns Addict
    • May 2005
    • 6626

    Originally posted by stilly
    What is the meaning of this?

    BAH! snake oil! Go back to Lee Carbide...


    Actually, I thought this might have been a good idea when I saw them listed in the redding catalog last year, but I did not think to get any.

    But now I am wondering, HOW the hell yall measure the case mouths accurately?

    I mean, if you measure them they flex in. So how you know what accurate it? Maybe you just squeezed a tad harder?

    How do you properly use these calipers to measure the case mouth diameter?

    :\

    Yeah go ahead, I am waiting... :\

    I hate calipers. I am only good at measuring things that are harder to affect. Like OAL and hmmm, nails.
    U gotta b gentle. Don't squeeze the case mouth with the caliper jaws. But then you run into another problem: the case mouth is not round! What? It's not round? Yes, it's not round. The .45 ACP case mouth is oblong. By spinning the case by 90 degrees and measuring in two different places you'll find a .002" difference in diameter. So I take the average.

    While this might seem an inaccurate assumption, when you take a look at a case sized in my std die and then run it through the DC die you'll notice the DC die is sizing it some more. It does in fact impart more neck tension.

    Whether the additional .001" makes a difference in terms of bullet setback is another story. Apparently it makes no difference with undersized bullets in thin brass. And it makes no difference in normal dimensioned components.

    The only benefit I see is HOW the case is sized. There is an absolute 100% improvement with the new "dot Whatever dot" brass. That brass is .002" bigger at the casehead and will not allow a STD die to touch the shell holder. The resulting case looks wrong- like a .40 S&W case sized in a 9mm die. The DC die sizes those cases effortlessly and to correct dimensions. It works the casehead less- .005" less. It does not shave brass from Glocked cases.

    Finally, it changes the feed angle in a 1911. I think this is the most important aspect. Because the case walls retain an additional .005" of girth, the magazine lips are able to keep the round straighter longer. A case sized in a STD die, especially the "dot Whatever dot" brass, has a .475" casehead and a .467" body. When that case slides forward in the magazine feed lips it begins to teeter totter on the base because it is not being supported by the bottom case or the feed lips. When that case gets to the end of the feed lips it either nosedives or points upward at an obnoxious angle. The reason I'm getting the chisel marks on the bullet tips is because the bullet is glancing off the back of the barrel hood during feeding. That can't be good for reliability.

    Comment

    • #17
      stilly
      I need a LIFE!!
      • Jul 2009
      • 10685

      Originally posted by J-cat
      U gotta b gentle. Don't squeeze the case mouth with the caliper jaws. But then you run into another problem: the case mouth is not round! What? It's not round? Yes, it's not round. The .45 ACP case mouth is oblong. By spinning the case by 90 degrees and measuring in two different places you'll find a .002" difference in diameter. So I take the average.

      While this might seem an inaccurate assumption, when you take a look at a case sized in my std die and then run it through the DC die you'll notice the DC die is sizing it some more. It does in fact impart more neck tension.

      Whether the additional .001" makes a difference in terms of bullet setback is another story. Apparently it makes no difference with undersized bullets in thin brass. And it makes no difference in normal dimensioned components.

      The only benefit I see is HOW the case is sized. There is an absolute 100% improvement with the new "dot Whatever dot" brass. That brass is .002" bigger at the casehead and will not allow a STD die to touch the shell holder. The resulting case looks wrong- like a .40 S&W case sized in a 9mm die. The DC die sizes those cases effortlessly and to correct dimensions. It works the casehead less- .005" less. It does not shave brass from Glocked cases.

      Finally, it changes the feed angle in a 1911. I think this is the most important aspect. Because the case walls retain an additional .005" of girth, the magazine lips are able to keep the round straighter longer. A case sized in a STD die, especially the "dot Whatever dot" brass, has a .475" casehead and a .467" body. When that case slides forward in the magazine feed lips it begins to teeter totter on the base because it is not being supported by the bottom case or the feed lips. When that case gets to the end of the feed lips it either nosedives or points upward at an obnoxious angle. The reason I'm getting the chisel marks on the bullet tips is because the bullet is glancing off the back of the barrel hood during feeding. That can't be good for reliability.
      uhhhhh. So that aint normal? Hmmm.
      7 Billion people on the planet. They aint ALL gonna astronauts. Some will get hit by trains...

      Need GOOD SS pins to clean your brass? Try the new and improved model...



      And remember- 99.9% of the lawyers ruin it for the other .1%...

      Comment

      • #18
        J-cat
        Calguns Addict
        • May 2005
        • 6626

        No, it ain't normal. The bullet tip is supposed to strike deeper inside the chamber.

        You can really tell the difference by the way the rounds sit in the magazine. The lips are grabbing the whe length of the round. The other way the lips are only grabbing the very back of the round.

        Comment

        • #19
          ar15barrels
          I need a LIFE!!
          • Jan 2006
          • 57143

          Originally posted by J-cat
          The reason I'm getting the chisel marks on the bullet tips is because the bullet is glancing off the back of the barrel hood during feeding.
          That can't be good for reliability.
          That is HOW a 1911 feeds.
          The bullet bounces 3 times before the breech locks.
          First bounce is when the bullet strikes the feedramp.
          Second bounce is on the rear edge of the hood. (this is why there is a chamfer there)
          Third bounce is on the bottom of the chamber as it's getting shoved into the chamber.
          The bullet won't actually touch the bottom of the chamber, but the case mouth does.
          Randall Rausch

          AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
          Handguns: www.handgunbarrels.com
          Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
          Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
          Most work done while you wait on a scheduled shop visit.

          Comment

          • #20
            J-cat
            Calguns Addict
            • May 2005
            • 6626

            That's not how it's supposed to feed. It's not supposed to hit the barrel hood. It's supposed to hit the top of the chamber forward of the barrel hood. They do cut a champher there because the bullet may hit there, but it's not supposed to hit there.

            Why is it that with virgin brass I don't get chisel marks? Why is it that with cases sized with the dual carbide die I don't get chisel marks? Why is it that I only get chisel marks when I use the standard die?

            Comment

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