Need help with 450 Bushmaster loads.

[jagermaster]

Wildcatter
Glad to hear about the progress, it makes me want the kill bullet NOW.

[Siringo]

The brass is really not the issue. I have about 10 boxes of factory ammo and the brass seams to last a long time. 6x so far. But, I'm running out of small rifle primers. I need to save them for my CAR 15 & pistol. 5.56. Just none to be had at any price. I have plenty of large rifle and can get more. I love shooting this beast! So, I have to figure this one out. Thanks for the tips! Maybe I'll rigg a sanding dowel on my case trimmer to sand down the inside of the new case, just a little. Thanks again!

Does anyone make a tool/reamer to make a small rifle primer pocket into a large rifle pocket? I have an old reamer for taking the crimp out of military brass. Something on that order could work.

[Wildcatter]

Wildcatter
Glad to hear about the progress, it makes me want the kill bullet NOW.

Believe me, you and a number of others, on this site, are going to get a bunch of them, and soon I hope. We're shooting the third generation this morning for the first time. I hope this will be nearly the last generation. If all goes well with it, we'll make a couple of changes for production purposes, certify them, and Bingo, we're nearly in business. But, before they go out into the public domain, I plan to use you guys as R&D engineers. In other words, I will souvenir you guys a gob of them, get your feed back, make any necessary changes as you see fit (hey, I can't think of everything), of course within the confines of production realities (somebody's going to want something that just can't be done, photon-torpedoes are ok, but I think pink bullets might just be a no-go, but then maybe not, Siringo is pretty wild you know), and then we'll start up production... The Jews do this type of engineering. They'll have three teams, two in the shop and one in the field and they constantly rotate, bring in the new field data, doing the changes, and then sending those changes back out with a new team. It's the method they use to get a new system up and running in a relative short period of time, with some amount of assurance that the final production model, really is the final model, as it was extensively tested in combat..

Hey, where's Boomer, some of you guys are thinking about lead bullets and he is a wealth of knowledge in this area of endeavor..

Safety First..t

[dfree]

for those of you out there resizing .458 jacked bullets how many re sizes do you make before reaching your final size. would like to re size hornadys 325 grain flex tip. and what are the increments of each re size? and is there any opinions on quality of equipment say from a Saeco sizer or a RCBS or lyman and would you lube a jacked bullet the same as a lead bullet?

[dfree]

wildcatter

Are your kill bullets for penetration on big game if so what range are you figuring is the max for deer black bear hogs every bullet manufacturer has there opinion on there bullets range and performance whats yours

[Wildcatter]

ALL of the 45cal bullets where as the other big-bore AR calibers are stuck with what ever they have, which ain't much, by comparison.. As for range of the Kill Bullet, well, subjectively speaking, if you can hold'em you've got way more left over Horse Power at 500+ yds and accuracy to boot for anything in N. America. Not saying you should take such long shots, but then again I've got customers that prefer such ranges with their 450's, bullet construction is very important at that point and is the reason I've designed this Kill Bullet, it will be like one stop shopping, that is, one bullet for all missions..

Safety First..t

[Slash2]

I've designed this Kill Bullet, it will be like one stop shopping, that is, one bullet for all missions..

Safety First..t

Is it going to be lead free?

[NordicRX8]

Well, my dies finally were delivered (Grafs & Sons) and have my press setup ready to go. Dang it if I didn't run out of One Shot and had to go driving around town to find some.

Getting back to my bench with a new can (three actually) of One Shot lube, I noticed that the Hornady 240gr XTP/MAG I thought I had on my bench was actually 250gr XTP (non-MAG).

Do you guys think it's OK to use the same powder charges (Lil-Gun) for the 250gr XTP as Hornady has listed for the 250gr FTX?

Comparing the 240gr XTP to the 300gr XTP, I see OAL is 2.060-2.065", I'm thinking the 250grXTP should be loaded to the same OAL.

Thoughts?

[450BOOMER]

Hi Guys,

I've been out of circulation with health issues... (bad back, hip, and a sore rotator cuff - my shooting shoulder of course.) I'm going to an Ultra 500 match tomorrow at the Sacramento Shooting Center as an observer (visiting my shooting buddies.)

I look forward to testing some of the new bullets; especially evaluation samples!

Ive been working on some new cast bullets for the 450b, 45 Colts, and 45-70's in the 250 - 360 grain range. These IMO work in the range that I feel is the most useful for the 450b. IMO bullets larger than 375 grains aren't suitable for the pressure curve of this cartridge in the AR platform. They can be used of course, but with losses in efficiency that may not be worth the effort unless you have a special application such as a single shot subsonic load where you cycle the action manually.

I'll post pictures of the new bullets as I get them cast... keep up the excellent work!

My Bushmaster V-Match upper should be here today or Monday.... ordered in December.

Boomer

[sparx]

man wildcatter uv got me so strangely aroused with this kill bullet. Ever sense before the elections Iv been anxiously waiting and it just seems to be getting better and better. Anything good is worth waiting for

[dfree]

wildcatter

are you using a standard length gas tube or is it carbine length and when you said that you freshened your chamber .002 to .003 do I understand that as you opened it up by that much? and if so was that just in the the neck area or was that the whole length of the chamber? and if so how does it effect the factory round in accuracy? anyone can chime in on these questions if they know the answers?

[450BOOMER]

All Bushmaster 450b's use the carbine length gastube.

I'm gonna guess the throat was opened up with a 45-70 throating reamer to chamber 0.457" - 0.458" bullets such as the new 325 grain Hornaday FTX bullet without resizing the bullet.

The Hornady bullets are relatively soft so I'm not surprised that chamber pressures didn't increase much and it's such a large diameter bullet that compressing it 0.005" isn't a high percentage deal. Oversize cast bullets are more accurate than bore sized cast bullets and I expect that accuracy with the unsized 325 grain FTX bullet was as good or better than resized bullets. There are always exceptions; however, cast bullet shooters have learned to use the largest diameter bullet that will chamber reliably. A bullet that fills the throat completely is centered in the bore and suffers less distortion than a bullet sitting at the bottom of the chamber. When fired, the undersized bullet strikes the bottom lands, bounces up and hits the top lands then wobbles itself down the bore out of balance. Chamber pressure increases using oversize cast bullets are negligible in the big bores starting with a 3 or larger.

Most cast bullet shooters are using bullets 0.002" or larger over bore groove size.

Boomer

[dfree]

450BOOMER

thanks for the input my reference was to a earlier post by wildcatter about sooner or later changing to the standard length gas tube when reaching upper limits of the 450 he also mentioned being able to interchange between carbine and standard length gas tube. I may have misunderstood the post. I hope to get data on the 325 ftx by next weekend. I have a inside neck reamer coming for the 284 case if that dosnt work with the proper function of the 284 then maybe opening the chamber to accept the 284 is the next step in that evolution. never done it will do some indepth research to even consider it. thanks again for the input.

[BD1]

It will be interesting to see what Wildcatters come up with. I'm not a believer in "Magic Bullets", (or a "free lunch"), but new things do get developed by guys playing around with what interests them the most.

My interest in the .450B is more geared towards cast boolits at modest pressures. Runnning various senerios through Quickload is telling me that a boolit between 280 and 310 grains is likely to find the hunting "sweet spot" out of this case capacity. I sent my best guess at a 300 grain design to Mountain Molds, but it may be 12 weeks before that mold is cut and sent back.

Two other areas of interest are the optimum weight for a sub-sonic load out of the 24 twist, and a good "plinker" that will still cycle the action. Anyone know the exact distance from the breechface to the gas port? How about the minimum port pressure required to cycle the action?

It looks to me like all of the really suitable powders for this case are going to peak pressure well before the bullet reaches the port. So there's not much to be gained by moving the port out to the rifle position. The powders that would maintain pressure out to the longer port would also result in pretty low percentage of combustion leading back to the problems that plaged the first M-16s sent to Vietnam.
BD

[Wildcatter]

The last few post are right on with their thoughts..Dfree, the 284 case should work without a hitch, the 45 Pro is a 284 with the shoulder cut off, the 450b is a shortened 45 Pro, to allow for the pointy bullets. If you were only going to use the 284 case, I'd never ream all of the many cases, as opposed to reaming a single barrel only once, your choice, both will work.

Also, I am using the standard length gas tube. Long before one gets in trouble with high pressures, the Carbine gas block/tube/port position, opens the action way too soon and you'll start to rip the rims off or the action won't open at all, because the cases haven't released from the chamber yet. So, I remove the Dissipater gas tube and spin the gas block 180 degrees, reset the set screws, the Dissipater gas block now blocks the carbine length gas port, then I install the rifle tube with a new gas port, and bingo, back in business for load development and the Dissipater gas block, turned 180, does not interfere with the rifle gas tube at all...

Now, how 'bout that boomer, I told ya he-da-man in all things cast. Defree, I don't freshen with a 458 chamber reamer, I'm afraid there might not be enough of the chamber shoulder to head space the case on, there really is, but it's on the ragged edge. Here's my thinking, I designed the 45pro to use 460 458 454 452 4515 & 450 (did I miss any) bullets, keep that in mind. One of the reasons we are getting such excellent accuracy is that Bushmaster keeps really great tolerances. If you put a 458 bullet on a 450b case it is likely not to chamber, but it's close. If you do a before and after measurement on a RESIZED case after you put in a 458 bullet, you'll see that it has only expanded 2-3 thou. Calling Dave Manson at Manson Reamers (810-953-0735) and tell him I sent you, so he'll understand what you are trying to do and he'll get you the correct throat reamer, Dave is my main man in all things with reamers, day-ain'ts better people. Besides, Dave's been there, done that, as they say and knows exactly where all the bodies are buried.

BD1, remember the BD5 aircraft? I'm going to love to read your lead bullet developments, you got it happening bro.. Anyways, your are absolutely right about the magic bullet, but in this I have made a genuine ballistics breakthrough (a true Paradigm Shift) and like Sparx, you-gona-pee-youz-self, when you start reloading this bad-boy. And..Keep in mind, on those reduced loads, they can detonate and bust a weapon, I know you know this, but for those who read here that might not, Goggle, light or reduced load detonation (or something like that), but your thinking is right spot on. The port is the limiting factor in how squib one can get. Keep something like Cream-of Wheat (I like how it meters through a powder measurer) on top of the load, to keep the powder next to the flash hole and work things up, try slower powders, they have more higher port pressures, timing might become an issue, but what duh hey, squib loads are dangerous stuff, but if you follow the rules they are just so much fun.

Update on the Kill Bullet, we're now fully 700+ fps above factory with a 257gr bullet, with only slightly more pressure and I mean very slightly.

You guys are asking all the right questions, which reflects on your Professionalism, whether or not you call yourself pro's or not, I think you are, some of the actual so-called Pros..well..you know. I hate to be obtuse, but I really can't reveal to much just yet, but rest assured I will. In the mean time just let them candy cane sticks bounce around your head and think of the possibilities..wink. This really is going to change everything..

Safety First..t