Case Head Spearation Confirmation

[divingin]

I can make better ammo than you, so can anyone here.

I don't know. Guffey may make fine ammo. He doesn't, however, communicate worth a damn.

Found this interesting:

Guffey: You can not answer the questions,

[previous post]:

RCBS instructions for the Rock Chucker specifically say to set up the press with a "cam over". Why would you say different?

Guffey: My cases do not have head space;...

[fguffey]

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I can make better ammo than you, so can anyone here.

J cat, what does that mean? When I started on reloader forums reloaders were adjusting the die down to the shell holder with an additional 1/4 turn after contact. At the same time I was told it was impossible to size a case with .002" clearance between the case shoulder and chamber shoulder. AND NOW? There is not a reloader on any forum that can not bump the shoulder back .002", That is the way they start a response; "I BUMP etc.", and that is all they know.

I am not interested in getting involved with a popularity contest: I do not have that ambition. There is 'doing it' and there is talking about doing it. Talking about doing it starts with "I bump etc.", all of my Herter presses bump twice.

F. Guffey

[J-cat]

It means that you don’t know anything about reloading outside of what you find impossible to do.

[fguffey]

if the shoulder is not being moved down? Is the brass case being compacted, and would that not be leaving a wrinkle in the brass case?

Over and over I say it is impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has case body support. The support on the outside of the case prevents 'wrinkles' or bulging. The seating die does not have case body support, when seating and crimping at the same time it is possible to bulge the case at the shoulder/case body juncture.

I form cases: One case I form is the 30/06 case to 8mm57. Most reloaders use a sizing die to go from 30/06 to 8mm57, If what you was is correct the shoulder of the 30/06 would be pushed back .127", when I form 8mm57 cases from 30/06 cases the shoulder on my 30/06 case does not move, part of the shoulder becomes part of the 'new shoulder' and part of the shoulder becomes part of the new neck.

Meaning the shoulder on the 8mm57 case is a new shoulder that is formed from the case body and the old shoulder became part of the neck.

Again: If the reloader would scribe a line around the case body/shoulder juncture before sizing and or forming they would understand they are not moving the shoulder back. I understand my old shoulder is still there but it not the new shoulder.

I have no problem with shortening the case from the shoulder to the case head whe3n sizing but I it is impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has case body support.

And then there is stretch and there is flow or is it stretch and flow? But when a reloader is locked onto the ideal he is moving the shoulder back there is no way to reason with him. And there is no logic to moving the shoulder back; If the shoulder moves back the case body/shoulder juncture bulges, if the case body does not have case body support the case body below the shoulder/case body juncture turns in to a series of bellows.

F. Guffey

[pennstater]

Yet another finely started thread asking real questions and someone has it careening off the rails. Gads, wishing these "experts" would start they're own damn forum and quibble among themselves. Pathetic.

[fguffey]

pennstater, the next thread, sooner or later will be about 'the dreaded donut'. If the reloader can not understand what happens to the case when sized and or fired they can not understand 'the donut'.

I have said I have cases that will never form a donut, I have said I have formed donuts by bad habits and I have said I have cases that form donuts by design meaning the donut is going to appear and there is nothing I can do about it.

Yet another finely started thread asking real questions and someone has it careening off the rails. Gads, wishing these "experts" would start they're own damn forum and quibble among themselves. Pathetic.

Well boo hoo, if there was a joke in all of this it would be on you, how childish; Pathetic? You do not know and or understand what happens to a case when sized and or fired. And there is not one reloaders that understands what I am talking about when I say I have fired cases with .127" clearance between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber. There is not one reloader that understands the firing pin on that rifle and chamber does not drive the case shoulder to the shoulder of the chamber. The shoulder on that case did not move when fired.

WHY NOT! ? My cases when fired did not suffer case head separation even thought ever reloaders believes the case should have had case head separation.

Going back 75+ years; Hatcher knew his cases would suffer case head separation if he fired his cases in a long chamber, to prove it he advanced the 30/06 reamer into the chamber to increase the clearance to .060". Hatcher did not experience case head separation. Reloaders claim to have read Hatcher, most of them do not understand what he said.

Had hatcher scribed his cases at the case body/shoulder juncture he would have know the shoulder of his case became part of the case body meaning the scribed line would not have moved; meaning the scribed line did not move.

And I have said opver and over and over I have a M1917 rifle with a long chamber. The chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face is .016" longer than a minimum length/full length sized case; meaning, when I fire a new over the counter factor loaded case the shoulder of my cases is .016" from the shoulder of the chamber.

IF THE FIRING PIN DROVE THE SHOULDER OF THE CASE TO THE SHOULDER OF THE CHAMBER IT WOULD BE NECESSARY FOR THE CASE TO STREATCH .016" BETWEEN THE CASE HEAD AND CASE BODY TO REACH THE BOLT FACE.

That does not happen on that rifle, the case gets shorter from the end of the neck to the case head and the case increases in length from the (new) shoulder to the case head. BUT! I avoid all of that by forming my 30/06 cases from 280 Remington cases. I adjust the die off of the shell holder .014". And what does that do/accomplish? It gives me the magic .002" clearance between the shoulder of the chamber and the shoulder of the case.

And then there is case head separation that has nothing to do with anything I have mentioned above.

I will tell you what pathetic is; all of these reloaders I am surrounded with that simply do not knw and do not want to know.

F. Guffey