Case Head Spearation Confirmation

[fguffey]

Like that is going to keep anyone busy but RCBS has a catalog of presses and press parts.

F. Guffey

[J-cat]

Nobody cares whether saami dentoted headspace on a case drawing. People care whether their case fits the chamber they have. They size their case so it fits their chamber with minimal clearance to prolong case life. It does not matter what is written somewhere else. People have to work with what they have, not conform to what somebody else has.

[fguffey]

And feel free to call RCBS, that has already been done complete with the complaint I said the ROCK CHUCKER is not a cam over press. What does that mean? RCBS is hiring reloaders that skipped the informative years.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Nobody cares whether saami dentoted headspace on a case drawing.

Someone did, he called SAAMI and reported me. I was thinking if he was going to repeat SAAMI he should quote SAAMI accurately. After that he started acting like a child, he was not mature enough to ask for a do over, kings-X or a time out; had he asked for an 'OPPPPPS' I would have given him one. Even after he told them how impressed they should be with him SAAMI did not correct their drawings.

I have no problem accepting SAAMI and their drawings.

And to add: What is it to me, this noisy ride.

F. Guffey

[J-cat]

Reported you? Who are you that saami should care?

[smoothy8500]

Reported you? Who are you that saami should care?

I'm sure some of the people at SAAMI know his screen name and have the same reaction too....

[SixPointEight]

I doubt anyone on this forum has started a search to determine if SAAMI ever listed head space for the case in their case drawings. SAAMI uses a symbol for head space, they only use the symbol for chamber drawings.

And I wonder has anyone pushed the keyboard away to gain enough room to scribe a case. Again, it is impossible to move a shoulder back with a die that has full body support, and them there is that bumping thing.

From the beginning, it has been the press that bumps. Does anyone know how to tell the difference between a cam over press and a non-cam over press?

I have 3 Rock Chuckers, non of my Rock Chuckers cam over. I have posted proof, what did reloaderd do? They got sillier.

Proof: I have two Piggy Back 11 press attachments. One of the PB11 attachments is installed on one of my Rock Chuckers. My PB11 attachments are auto advance, for the non-mechanically inclined that means the advance mechanism is not allowed to back up, if the press should change directions it will destroy the one way clutch.

I have 2 extra one way clutches JIC, but the Rock Chucker was not designed to cam over, if it did the ram would cause the Piggy Back to back up and RCBS knows this. At one time they sold one way clutches.

F. Guffey

https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c

You've said a lot of words here, some of them are even true in a vacuum. The problem is that everyone but you understands what we mean when we say bumping the shoulder. You're the only one going on about bumping your press and doing idiotic stuff like scribing your case shoulders. Nobody cares if the scribe marks move up the case. We know cases stretch, hence why case head separation (the whole point of this thread) occurs.

You're just determined to sit on the internet throwing around what you believe to be clever insults to other people's intelligence. You seem so insistent on us pushing back from the keyboard and yet here you are writing dozens of posts, quoting and replying to yourself, posting multiple times in a row. I have concerns for your mental health, or else your mental capacities.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[arrowshooter]

I tried not to. LMFAO

Jiminy Crickets, this is getting ridiculous.

Mr. Guffey, I tried to keep up with you here but you just are not making any sense. Plus, I have yet to see your explanation as to what is really happening during the "shoulder bump" if that is not what it really is. So all you have is an opinion on the matter which you have now beaten into a mute point. All I do know is that the process works for me with a .002" reduction to aid in smooth chambering. Pretty much all I was asking about. If I were to remove all of your comments along with the ones rebutting you, I have my answer.

RCBS instructions for the Rock Chucker specifically say to set up the press with a "cam over". Why would you say different?

I print out the SAMMI spec for every round that I load for and every single one of the rifle specs list a specific "head space" measurement for the sizing of the brass. Why would you say different?

I can go on, but will not continue to fuel your bullying under the guise of education.

Mods: Please close this thread and delete any post after this one.

[mjmagee67]

First on to be deleted .......

[fguffey]

RCBS instructions for the Rock Chucker specifically say to set up the press with a "cam over". Why would you say different?

I have instructions from RCBS, I have instructions for a cam over press; I can measure the amount of cam over for a cam over press in thousandths. When a cam over press cams over the ram stops on the way to the top and then starts down in the opposite directions. Again; I have 12 Herter presses, all of my Herter presses cam over.

I also have non cam over presses, Again I have three Rock Chuckers; none of my Rock Chuckers cam over. I had one that I modified meaning I ground the linkage at the toggle to prevent the linkage from making contact when the handle was lowered. Before grinding the linkage the force of the toggle pushed the ram back at the bottom and forward at the top. MEANING: It was impossible for the press to cam over, if the press can not cam over it can not bump. All cam over presses cam pump twice at the top, once on the way up and once when it returns.

Mind boggling: If a reloader fails to understand the cam over it is impossible for them to understand adjusting the die to the shell holder.

Again, the last cam over RCBS Press I use was an A2. That A2 had a cam over of .017", I doubt that makes any sense to anyone on this forum but me; but if the cam over is .017" and the reloaders adjust the die a quarter turn with the handle down the die will adjustment will cause a .034" strain on the press.

One way or the other the bottom of the press is pushed down and the top of the press is pushed up because the reloader does not understand cam over. Again, back in the'30s a company developed pliers called vise grips. The company called the design 'leaver lock'.

Back to the Rock Chucker, the RC was not designed to be operated without a case in the shell holder but if a reloader can somehow manage to push his self away from the key board he can lower the handle until the linkage goes into a bind at the toggle. While the press is in a bind the reloader can see the top of the ram. I suggest he watch the ram because without a case and die in the press the ram will move to the front.

BECAUSE the linkage pushes the ram back at the bottom. If the press cams over that can not happen. At the first hint China was making Rock Chuckers a reloader made a video of him fanning the handles if a Rock Chucker at a Cabela's. He was blaming China not knowing all Rock Chuckers were designed to be operated with a die and case in the shell holder.

The shell aligns the die with the ram/shell holder, without the shell for alignment the ram is kicked forward at the top and back at the bottom. If the RC cammed over the ram would go straight up and straight down when it cames over.

When I adjust the die to the shell holder on a cam over the instructions suggest I consider the amount of cam over.

[fguffey]

RCBS instructions for the Rock Chucker specifically say to set up the press with a "cam over". Why would you say different?

My cases do not have head space; I can measure the difference in length between my cases from the shoulder to the case head and compart that length with the chamber length from the shoulder of the chamber to the case head to get clearance.

Everything does not have head space and every gage is not a head space gage. The case gage got its start in the '30s. It was not until after the Internet reloaders started making this stuff up. And still a reloader can not do a search to find where SAAMI list case head space, they do say it is a common mistake made by reloaders. And then there is the digital head space gage. I said the digital head space gage is a dial indicator stand or a comparator.

And then there was that thing about the 3 legged milk stool.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

I can go on, but will not continue to fuel your bullying under the guise of education.

You can not answer the questions, you do not know how to determine if a press is a non camover or a cam over press. You do not understand the meaning of 'bump', my cam over presses are bump presses, my non cam over presses do not bump.

There is nothing I can do about the reloaders use of the word bump: there is one thing that is absolute, it is impossible to bump the shoulder back with a die that has case body support. There is no bulling in that statement. There is the absence of proof from any of the great reloaders and or manufacturers of components.

I suggest you get your hands out of your pockets and off of the key board and start trying to determine where the shoulder goes when it is being sized. I can not believe you would allow someone to intimidate you into thinking to be a friend you have to agree.

F. Guffey

[FLIGHT762]

I think I get it now. I have referring to "shoulder bump" when it should be "shoulder guff".

I should be saying, I need to be guffing the case shoulder -.003"- .005" to get reliable chambering.

Thanks.

[fguffey]

I think I get it now. I have referring to "shoulder bump" when it should be "shoulder guff".

Flight762, thank you; I do not believe it is necessary to go to that much trouble. Many of the members are claiming I treat them as thought they just fell off the turnip truck. I would not do that but when they act like children I treat them like children.

I have no ideal why all of you great reloaders have no clue as to what happens to the case when sized. Think! You are setting at your reloading bench with all of your equipment around you and no one is watching. I understand it is complicated but until you figure it out I do not believe anything is solved by being rude.

I will admit reloaders could be offended when I say it is impossible to move the shoulder of a case back with a die that has case body support. No one will tell me 'what it is' they do not understand about sizing a case with a die that has case body support. I can move the shoulder back on a case with a die that does not have case body support, I can turn the case in to something that looks like an accordion; I can shorten the distance between the shoulder and case head and move the shoulder back at the same time but I can not do that with a die that has case body support.

And I understand 'bump' is a catchy word but ion the beginning 'bump' is what the press die and it was only on a cam over press because non-cam over presses do not bump.

F. Guffey

[J-cat]

I can make better ammo than you, so can anyone here.