Skip First Die for New Brass?

[noylj]

>I am new to reloading

Follow the directions in your loading manuals and don't try to save steps.
Packaged cases can have dings and dents at the case mouth from handling and shipping.
Take each case, lightly chamfer the case mouth inside and out, and run it through EVERY die.
You want to LEARN what you are doing.

[9mmrevolver]

I don't resize with lapua or starline brass. Everything else I do

[Dark Hunt]

With new brass, loading straight wall cartridge cases you don't need a sizing die since the belling die opens the mouth and the seating/crimp die sets the final dimension.

[Redemption]

as long as its within spec, and checks out in the chamber gauge it should be fine. Me personally.... I dont use a chamber gauge. I just set me C.O.L. chamber my first round on the press to make sure it chambers well and that is good enough for me.

But then I do not generally work with new brass.

[Divernhunter]

When I got my 45-70 Starline brass I just belled and loaded. I also hand prime. All of it was fine just like 44mag and 454casull Starline brass was.

Been loading for many years and many different cartridges.

With bottle necked rifle and pistol brass I usually just run them thru my sizing die so the the expander ball straightens out the dents making them out of round. Then I chamfer them. None of this or other case prep is needed with Nosler brass.

[CSACANNONEER]

as long as its within spec, and checks out in the headspace gauge it should be fine. Me personally.... I dont use a headspace gauge. I just set me C.O.L. chamber my first round on the press to make sure it chambers well and that is good enough for me.

But then I do not generally work with new brass.

It's a rimmed cartridge so, it headspaces off the rim. A chamber gauge should be used and not a headspace gauge, which is made for checking the headspace of the gun.

[Redemption]

It's a rimmed cartridge so, it headspaces off the rim. A chamber gauge should be used and not a headspace gauge, which is made for checking the headspace of the gun.

I had to go back and reread what I wrote. you are correct.... long day at work. correction imminent.

['ol shooter]

I size them all, regardless of brand. I have to say Lapua did not require sizing based on the way the two calibers I used them for went through the dies, really great QC. Remington, Winchester, Hornady, and yes, even Starline needed some attention. Brass in bags and repackaged in smaller amounts in boxes can easily be damaged. When it comes to loading, I take no chances.

[stilly]

I am new to reloading. Up until now I have reloaded old rifle brass with a shoulder,303,30-06. I just picked up a 45-70. It has a 3 die set since it has straight walls. I bought new Starline brass. It measures the correct case length right out of the bag.
My question is whether I can completely skip the first die and go straight to bell and prime?
Thank you

Although brass should be to spec, WHY take a chance that you got stuff that might be out of spec? It is part of the process of reloading. As a new reloader, you should work on developing GOOD habits and safe practices. Is it safe to take a shell that is unknown and just prime it and load it up or is it safe to take a shell that fits a certain size and prime it and load it up for your firearm?

I am glad you asked this question. Some folks think nothing of it, and some folks error on the side of caution. EVEN brass manufacturers will tell you that they pop out the brass, but you should resize it to make sure it is within spec. It aint like it is going out of the way too much to make sure you are making ammos that fit your guns.

With new brass, loading straight wall cartridge cases you don't need a sizing die since the belling die opens the mouth and the seating/crimp die sets the final dimension.

No sorry. That is incorrect. You are possibly thinking of a FCD, but not a seating/crimping die. If you try to do that with a Lee die set then you can end up with ripples after you seat/crimp. That alone shows there is no resizing on the regular seating/crimping die. Only the FCD is the other die that will resize as it crimps, and it is only to keep the cartridge straight and give support and not ripple.

[tonyjr]

FCD = ?

[TexasJackKin]

FCD = ?

Lee- Factory Crimp Die

Some people don't like them, I do.

[opos]

For me, reloading is a matter of following the same "boring" steps time after time once I know those steps work..been loading a long time with no real issues (yet). I size brass (new or fired) because I want to maintain my process..don't want to get to the point I do "this" with some brass and "that" with some other brass, etc..soon I might be changing other things like trimming, etc....so like a pilot with a check list (living pilots do this)...I follow the same procedures time after time. Just my2 cents.

[tonyjr]

TexasJackKin
Thanks , if in my caliber , I use . Most 2 die sets don't have and some 3 die sets don't . Some times I remove the decapper pin and use sizing die , but I have rippled a few cases .
FYI - I use cases with loose primer pockets to set up .

[TexasJackKin]

That is an oft believed fallacy dis-proven back in the 1970s by Dean Grennell. Using a strain gauge. Whether it is a .001" interference fit. Or a .006" interference fit. Between neck and bullet. It does take more pressure to "seat" the bullet with more interference. Because you are stretching the case neck more. But due to the elastic properties of cartridge brass. The pressure required to "pull" the bullet out of the case remains the same.

IIRC, Bo Lee repeats Grennell's findings in his "Second Edition" manual.

Found it! Pg 55, first paragraph titled "Bullet Seating". Being Lee, he did not give credit to Dean Grennell for the testing that factually confirmed it 30 yrs prior.
JM2c

I've got the "Modern Reloading" second Edition by Richard Lee, and couldn't find it. Did you mean a different edition?


I googled Dean Grennel, and his name comes up as the author of "The ABCs of Reloading" I've got my copy of that loaned out, and can't reference it right now.

You're probably right, I just can't find your reference.

Edit:

My Lyman 50th Edition- Page 105, 3rd paragraph under shooting says fully prepared brass, providing an even release contributed the most to accuracy and lowest extreme spreads in velocity.

So, who yo gona believe?

[pacrat]

I've got the "Modern Reloading" second Edition by Richard Lee, and couldn't find it. Did you mean a different edition?


I googled Dean Grennel, and his name comes up as the author of "The ABCs of Reloading" I've got my copy of that loaned out, and can't reference it right now.

You're probably right, I just can't find your reference.

Edit:

My Lyman 50th Edition- Page 105, 3rd paragraph under shooting says fully prepared brass, providing an even release contributed the most to accuracy and lowest extreme spreads in velocity.

So, who yo gona believe?

Nope, same edition. Pg55 Heading... "Bullet Seating" paragraph 1. Gotta a type it cause don't have scanner. Would have been easier for you to just read it. But others who don't have book will read and hopefully profit from sharing.

A properly sized case neck will be .001" smaller than the bullet. A greater press fit will not result in a tighter bullet as the bullet itself sizes the case and the "press fit" will remain about .001"

Re ABCs of loading. Dean did all the early editions then others took the helm and did later ones. I don't remember if he published his finding in ABCs or not. He also authored hundreds of articles in the Gun Rags back then. I remember reading it in one of the great many articles he wrote. And he also told me same thing FTF, at now gone "Silverado Rod n Gun Club" in the OC.

I consider it an honor that he took this dumb kid [back then], under his wing and mentored me on reloading and riflery. Hell of a guy he was. He would get there early [keys to gate as member] and grab the stations shaded by the only tree. He had a "GUN" he made for fireforming wildcats. Which was a contraption bolted to a 2x6. That used standard 7/8x14 sizing dies as the "chamber".

I can say the same for another great guy named "Tommy Bish", who wrote for Gun Digest and IIRC, Gun World. He hung out at San Gabriel Valley Gun Club. Also willing to share knowledge with "youngsters".

As to the underlined from Lyman. "Even Release" is not at issue. Because seating pressure is not a contributing factor to release pressure.

JM2c.....Hope you found this useful.