Pistol Die Set Up Question

[Rgarbarino]

Just getting into reloading and I'm at the point where I've got my cases prepped, have all the supplies and I'm ready to go. I'm working with 9mm and 45 right now. I've already de-primed, tumbled, and sized my cases. I don't have any questions on the sizing die. I've set the expanding die so the bullet just gets into the case, maybe 1/32 or so, just enough so the bullets sits in there when I place it.

When moving on to the seating/taper crimp die I put in an expanded case and brought down the crimp die until it just touches the case and I felt slight resistance. Then I placed a bullet and gradually brought down the seater until I got the right depth, COAL of 1.10" for 115gr bullet.

Now the questions:
Do I need to actually crimp for pistol rounds? Right now the crimp just touches the case so it's not really crimping. Do I want to bring the die down any more so it slightly crimps?

Is it normal so see a very very slight bulge on the case at the bottom of the seated bullet as seen in the pic?

This round has not been in a case gauge yet but I will try dropping it into a barrel tonight.

Any input?

[wbunning]

Yup. Gotta crimp. If the bullet is seated too loosely, it will muck with the pressure. That can be bad enough to not generate enough pressure to get the bullet all the way out the end of the barrel. The bullet can also get pushed too far back into the case during recoil while sitting in the mag. You'll get lots of info here shortly on just how much to crimp, as it's entirely possible to OVER crimp as well. Simple test: load several cases with no primer or powder, just the bullet, and push the cartridge against a barrier like your bench. Push HARD. If the bullet moves, increase the crimp, working up to the point where there is no measurable difference in COAL, after pushing, then you probably have achieved enough crimp.

That looks like a plated bullet. You don't want to crimp them so much as to compromise the plating.

I use a progressive press, and a separate crimp die on my semi-auto cartridges.

[stilly]

Yup. Gotta crimp. If the bullet is seated too loosely, it will muck with the pressure. That can be bad enough to not generate enough pressure to get the bullet all the way out the end of the barrel. The bullet can also get pushed too far back into the case during recoil while sitting in the mag. You'll get lots of info here shortly on just how much to crimp, as it's entirely possible to OVER crimp as well. Simple test: load several cases with no primer or powder, just the bullet, and push the cartridge against a barrier like your bench. Push HARD. If the bullet moves, increase the crimp, working up to the point where there is no measurable difference in COAL, after pushing, then you probably have achieved enough crimp.

That looks like a plated bullet. You don't want to crimp them so much as to compromise the plating.

I use a progressive press, and a separate crimp die on my semi-auto cartridges.

I was about to say the same thing... Plated bullet will leave your shells with panty lines...

And yes, On a 9mm the crimp should be there just enough to remove that bell/ flair from your case mouth and press slightly against the projectile. It does not need to be dug into it, but snugged up against it.

[Rgarbarino]

Thanks for the reply.

This is a dud bullet, no primer or powder while I'm setting up the dies. I'll try your test and see if I can push in the bullet. And yes they are plated bullets.

[racinjason233]

9MM headspaces on the case mouth. just a little crimp to hold the bullet is needed. do not crimp like a rifle with a crimp groove.

[ojisan]

All the above replies are spot-on.
Crimp as a separate step if at all possible, the result is far more consistent ammo.

[Rgarbarino]

9MM headspaces on the case mouth. just a little crimp to hold the bullet is needed. do not crimp like a rifle with a crimp groove.

If that's the case then should the 9mm cases be trimmed so they are all the same size...so the crimps are consistent?

[Bill Steele]

I totally disagree with anyone who says the crimp on a 9mm round will hold the bullet or help in any way with ignition, burn, etc.

The proper "crimp" on a 9mm round is just straightening the case back out, zero more.

All the neck tension that your round will ever have will be induced by the sizing die, adding more than just straight merely removes neck tension. If you add more than straight, the brass is pressed into the bullet which is softer than the brass. The brass springs back slightly (more spring than the lead bullet). This removes neck tension.

Just make it straight, no more.

Buy a box of premium Federal ammo and see how much "crimp" those rounds have.

PS - In your picture you still have some belling, so a tish more down on the taper crimp die, but not so much as the brass turns inward. And no, you don't need to trim your cases.

['ol shooter]

I totally disagree with anyone who says the crimp on a 9mm round will hold the bullet or help in any way with ignition, burn, etc.

The proper "crimp" on a 9mm round is just straightening the case back out, zero more.

All the neck tension that your round will ever have will be induced by the sizing die, adding more than just straight merely removes neck tension. If you add more than straight, the brass is pressed into the bullet which is softer than the brass. The brass springs back slightly (more spring than the lead bullet). This removes neck tension.

Just make it straight, no more.

Buy a box of premium Federal ammo and see how much "crimp" those rounds have.

PS - In your picture you still have some belling, so a tish more down on the taper crimp die, but not so much as the brass turns inward. And no, you don't need to trim your cases.

I agree 100%, I take the bell out until it drops freely into the case gauge, but do not crimp anymore. I pulled some plated .45 ACP rounds down and was astonished at the deep "panty lines" in the bullet. As has been said, when you crimp, the brass springs back out some, but the lead stays put, loosening the bullet in the case. I also started using the Lee Universal Expanding Die on all my cases, because it only bells the edge, does not go deeper like some of the dies I own. With a taper crimp case, I feel it holds the bullet better. I load on a single stage, so I don't mind the extra step, it's worth it to me.

[Rgarbarino]

Thanks, this is the kind of info I'm looking for. I have been told by others that there is no need to trim pistol brass. I'll adjust the crimp slightly and have at it.

[wbunning]

I also started using the Lee Universal Expanding Die on all my cases, because it only bells the edge, does not go deeper like some of the dies I own.

I've been using the Lee powder-through expanders for the same reason. The expander in my Hornady set, for example, has a plug that goes all the way into the case and seems to open more of the upper portion of the case. Before crimping, the bullet could easily be pushed all the way into the case. I quit using it.

And, yeah.. Enough crimp to straighten the bell should do the job. No rolling with rounds like the 9mm.

[Fastattack]

With respect, have you bothered to read a book on reloading, such as "The ABCs of Reloading"? If you have not, I highly suggest it. You really should educate yourself.
If you have and are just getting peoples opinions, then so be it.

[Rgarbarino]

With respect, have you bothered to read a book on reloading, such as "The ABCs of Reloading"? If you have not, I highly suggest it. You really should educate yourself.
If you have and are just getting peoples opinions, then so be it.

Yes I've read the book, I own the book, I've watched tons of youtube videos, I've read the instructions with the dies etc...those are all great but it's not the same as when you're actually are starting to do it and have a question that you'd like guys with real word experience to help out with. I'm educating myself by asking questions.

But thanks for your input.

['ol shooter]

With respect, have you bothered to read a book on reloading, such as "The ABCs of Reloading"? If you have not, I highly suggest it. You really should educate yourself.
If you have and are just getting peoples opinions, then so be it.

The very first book I ever bought on loading, the information contained is timeless.

[Win231]

Since I load mixed brass with slight variations on case length, I'll set the taper crimp die with one of each brand of cases. That way some rounds may have a bit more crimp than needed but none will be insufficiently crimped. To test crimp, I'll push the bullet nose against the bench. If the bullet doesn't move deeper into the case, that's enough crimp. With 9mm, I only load jacketed bullets, so a bit too much crimp is OK.

I'd keep velocities at middle power with plated bullets. Some manufacturers have a warning about that in the box. The plating can come off in the barrel at high velocities. I've had that happen.