Do you REALLY want to shoot Miwalls in your guns?

[Vectrexer]

Surprising enough the Miwall new manufacture .380 Auto JHP ammo works better in my Kel Tec P3AT than ANY of the Federal or Magtech in either ball or self defense (JHP) load and in type (from red box up to Hydarshok, or gold for the Magtech) or any grain weight for the ammo. So there goes the good name of a supposedly good brands. at at least for this application anyway.


So far the only other reliable ammo that equals or betters the Miwall in the P3AT is the Winchester Ranger JHP and all of the Corbon JHP. And for ball the Sellier and Bellot (S&B) works great int he P3AT.

In this case hurray for Miwall!

[gose]

Yep. That's my take as well.

It's true that the carrier might have survived, had it been a steel carrier, but the ammo went BOOM, and you can't blame that on the carrier.

[Sydwaiz]

Pics of the ammo?

[CHS]

Hundreds of thousands of people have bought and shot MILLIONS of rounds of Miwall cartridges without issue, and now you're blaming the company?

Looks more to me like a defective carrier than anything else.

[Splinter]

Hundreds of thousands of people have bought and shot MILLIONS of rounds of Miwall cartridges without issue, and now you're blaming the company?

Looks more to me like a defective carrier than anything else.

I have shot miwall for years, as well as several other factory new ammo brands. All of them have their problems eventually. As far as reloads, miwall has given myself and others the LEAST amount of problems in the reload world. But, there have been plenty of issues with miwall ammo, as well as factory ammo. No ammo is issue free, even when its new from the big name companies.
Without seeing the case that was at fault for this, it doesnt look to me like the ammo caused this.

[dustoff31]

It's true that the carrier might have survived, had it been a steel carrier, but the ammo went BOOM, and you can't blame that on the carrier.

The ammo went boom where? Locked in the chamber or out of battery? Like the other fellow said, Let's see the brass.

[dgey]

I've shot thousands of miwall and loadx ammo with great success. if there was a problem of any note, don't you think it'd be plastered all over the net...? Everyone seems to complain when they stub their toe, so why clam up when when real money is spent on suspect loads...?

[WARDOG]

Where is the cartridge case?

That looks like a tragic malfunction. I hope it didn't hurt you or anyone else.
It's hard to make a judgement just by looking at the pic. I transferred it so I could enhance it and brighten it.
I may be as qualified to inspect it and give an opinion as anyone experienced with AR's, maybe even you. But before slamming MIWALL, you should have an independent gunsmith examine your weapon to find the cause(s). And it really shouldn't even be a friend to get an objective opinion.
There are so many questions,
What is the make of your weapon?
Is the chamber for .223 or 5.56 NATO?
How long have you had that Aluminum (Al.) Bolt-Carrier (BC)?
How many rounds have you fired with that Al. BC before this?
Was the BC inspected, cleaned prior to shooting the Miwall ammo?
What alloy is the BC made from? 6061, or likely 7075?
Who made the BC and have they had any other defects reported?
What kind of buffer and spring were you running? (I suspect you were running something custom if you went to an Aluminum Bolt Carrier)
What are the manufacturer limits for that BC?
What grain bullet were you using?
Did you have a stock Bolt retaining pin?
Did you have a custom buffer, buffer spring, or shortened buffer tube?
Did the manufacturer of the AL. BC suggest buffer / buffer spring-rate modifications?
Did this malfunction come as the first shot after cleaning or reassembling the rifle?
Where is the pic of the cartridge case?
Where is the pic of the cartridge case?
Where is the pic of the cartridge case?
Did the primer get blown out of the case?
Was the cartridge a MIWALL reload, or another brand sold by MIWALL?

I am retired LEO, with plenty of AR experience, AR Armorer, I work in a gun shop, I make parts for custom guns from scratch, I make cylinders for BigBore pistols, mono-blocks for BigBore Double rifles, I make barrels from scratch (Barrel-Smith) and am also a machinist. I know AR's inside and out and own 5 of them including Ar-10's, even in Magnums. I have even been in a few gun magazines (2 in 2008).
I cannot believe anybody would sell, or even buy a damn aluminum bolt carrier to start with, so already my opinion is subjective.
I know a lot about aluminum and I would never even use Aluminum (Al) for a BC. The expansion you get is so much greater under heat, compared to steel. The expansion could be enough, in a heated condition, to prevent the bolt from rotating. That could have caused the malfunction. The lightened up pic looks like something stopped the BC from cycling to the rear, or that the buffer spring was missing, and the BC was replaced for the pic. Additionally, with a lighter Al BC, there would be less mass to slow the velocity and inertia of the lightweight AL BC compared to a steel BC. That recoil velocity would have to slowed by a 'heavier' buffer spring, or buffer so the buffer would not bottom out in the buffer tube.
Aluminum also tends to 'gall' with repeatative motions if not specifically lubed with lube for Aluminum.
From what I see, the buffer may have been frozen, or the charging handle may have obstructed the BC from moving back.
Think about how little effort it takes to pull the charging handle to the rear when the BC is in battery. It would have to take a triple loaded case to recoil so violently and at such velocity that the BC would not have a chance to even cycle back and allow the energy to 'split' the BC. Since you couldn't get a triple charge into a .223 case, it would have to be fast burning pistol powder. Since pistol cartridges and rifle cartridges are not even reloaded in the same room at MIWALL (To prevent such a load) that scenario is remote.
I understand how you would be upset, but you may need to be upset with yourself. I don't know.
I know the MIWAL (Walsh) family very well, and have for 20 years. I know his sons, wife, his business, and I even worked with him since he is a reserve Sergeant for my P.D. Our P.D. has used, and still uses MIWALL reloaded ammo for quarterly qualification for AR's, M14's, MP-5's, SIG 220's. The local college also uses MIWALL ammo for PC 832 courses. MIWALL also supplies ammunition to annual SWAT competitions, and many other LEO agencies. ALSO, there is an INDOOR range that is part of MIWALL's building which he is part owner, and MIWALL Reloaded Ammo is probably the most commonly purchased ammo for customers shooting at that range. Likely, I have shot more MIWALL reloaded ammo than anybody else on this board since 1989. I also just recently made parts for his reloading machines which have not even been installed yet by the way. I have never heard of such a malfunction in the AR world when it was not a problem with the weapon. It doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I have just never heard of such a mallfunction.
I was at MIWALL Corp. today and spoke with Mike Sr., unfortunately, before I saw this post. Granted Mike Sr. no longer pulls the reloading handles, but he runs a tight ship with one of his sons as a manager.
Mike Sr. is a great , responsible guy trying to make a living selling ammo in Kalifornia. I have seen him at gun shows exchange, or reimburse ammo, to an unhappy customer that bought ammo at another gunshow. It is usually ammo from another manufacturer that is bad. Mike's QC in house is very conscienscous because he and his employees know the liability involved.
So, please investigate the cause of the Malfunction before slamming a good man, his family owned business in 2 states, and affecting his livelyhood.
I am not saying MIWALL ammo didn't cause your violent malfunction, I just suspect there should be a further investigation. A lot of people read this board, and much of the info here gets posted through opinions at AR-15.com which starts with, "I heard this guy bought some bad MIWALL ammo...."
Give Mike Sr. a call (530) 273-1047. I guarantee he will ask the same questions I have, but he will work with you.

B. Reno aka: WARDOG
Sergeant / Detective - Retired

[Sydwaiz]

I cannot believe anybody would sell, or even buy a damn aluminum bolt carrier to start with,

This. Nuff said.

[mecam]

Bend it back and a little bit of brazing and you should be good to go.

[Full Clip]

That looks like a tragic malfunction. I hope it didn't hurt you or anyone else...

Nicely done.

[nick]

I shoot Miwall factory ammo. Not .223, granted, but I've shot a few thousand handgun rounds in various calibers, as well as some reloads (they didn't have factory ammo in stock at the time). Never a problem of any sort.

[3GunFunShooter]

Shooting Milwall in a JP, shame on you!
I have seen problems with Milwall and had problems with their reloads.
Just not worth the risk to save a few $$$. Do I buy ammo from them? Yes, but only factory loaded.

[oldtrucks]

That looks like a tragic malfunction. I hope it didn't hurt you or anyone else.
It's hard to make a judgement just by looking at the pic.

Excellent reply by Wardog. Without seeing the case and damage to the gun it's impossible to place blame.

[rayra]

...I cannot believe anybody would sell, or even buy a damn aluminum bolt carrier to start with, so already my opinion is subjective....

I liked ALL of wardog's post, but this part stands out the most / best.

/I think Miwall's being scapegoated in this case.