New Dillon XL 650

[GW]

Once you go Blue, you'll never turn back.

[TATER313]

Once you go Blue, you'll never turn back.

The Lee gave me a good foundation, but wish I would have bought the Dillon several years ago. Now all I need is my own land to setup my own range. lol.

[cloudsurfr]

I know a lot of folks think you can't start on a progressive and you need to learn on a single stage press... I have just recently started with the XL650. I am not focusing on speed, and taking a lot of time to do my first load workups. I'm expecting once i have my "recipes" dialed-in i will do a higher volume output.

Cannot be more pleased with my Dillon, nor the support (I broke one of the plastic bits above the spring on the powder threaded bar). Had a replacement in 2-3 days after calling them. A+!

I know a lot is going on all at each movement, but being cautious and paying attention should avoid any major errors. my .02

I can't imagine using a single stage for larger production (shooting steel plates or USPSA/IDPA). It's important to me to have the ability to have higher output per hour to support my growing shooting habit. If i were doing rifle distance shooting, i would think a single stage press would likely work and probably better for ultra-accuracy QC of each stage.

A lot of folks who have "upgraded" to a higher output progressive have said similar to Tater313... I feel like i'm skipping the costs of that first set of equipment, which at least partially offset the much more significant costs for the Dillon setup.

Luckily have a couple friends who have similar setups and can ask questions of them as well as the community here!

[mikeyr]

I have to agree with Cloudsufr, I reloaded for a few years with a single stage, then I didn't reload for close to 30 years (didn't shoot either during that time, just got busy with life). I got back into shooting and decided this time it was for life so I purchased a 650 thinking "hey no problem, I know what I am doing, I did it 30 years ago", well it was a shock, the darned progressive sure moves a lot of brass around as it loads and you want to see it all, so you move the handle part of the way up or down to see what happens in station X while oops you are moving the brass to the next station...it was a little frustrating but all my ammo when bang so I did good. My first time with the 650 I did have one (or 2?) double charges, I think a few no charges and I even remember a few with no primers at all, since I was not moving the handle the full distance, I caught all of them and I know better now, trust the machine Luke, but trust with proper verification. I wish I had that thing 30 years ago, I might never have stopped shooting.

I can see where a progressive is a lot for a newbie to get used to, but if a person can't figure out the progressive maybe they should not be reloading at all. I just recently (last few weeks) re-setup my single stage to do some 308 ammo, so there is a reason for all the presses.

[cloudsurfr]

Thanks Mikeyr! A possible suggestion and not to hijack the thread but - LIGHTING! I'm a geek, so i soldered together some LED's to *super illuminate* the shell plate. Makes a TON of difference being able to see every little thing and especially the charge before placing the bullet.

I also had 2 with no primer. I usually can feel the difference and have found that being consistent on the lever (always do the full movement, even if not seating a primer) helps you feel when no primer is there to seat (or you try to seat a LP into a SP .45 case!). Good chance to use my impact puller and re-do. I case gauged all my rounds and caught them then. I also periodically re-measure my powder drop and COL to make sure i'm still where i want to be. I'm probably being over meticulous right now... but trying to stay safe and build good habits.

Here's the LED's laid out before i soldered them:


Installed:

(press monitor not wired yet - need to redo the bracket for a bit more clearance)
And a good example so you can see how much light (from all angles including down into case):


If i were to do it again, i would simply do one or two 3-6 LED sections at the top front and back and call it good. More is better, but diminishing returns and a ton more time spent than necessary.

HTH!

[TATER313]

I agree with you cloudsurfr, when I started with the lee turret people said I should start with a single stage. i wish I would have bought the dillon then. I purchased the sky light, I agree with you the light is one of the most important apart. It gives you a great visual of the powder drop. I loaded my first thousand rounds like a breeze, and less work. I can not wait till I get the 223 trim and reload setup. I had a few primers upside down, and 1 no primer. I agree consistency with the action, and no distractions. The most important part I do is make sure the powder drop is good before any projectile goes in. The primer I can see the powder I cant, and after I reload I place the bullets in trays to check primers and incorrect lengths.

[Eljay]

I think as you guys progress you'll find the flipped/missing primers will go away. Part of that is getting a system down for filling the tubes and part of that is feel while loading.

Luckily if you mess it up it's easy to catch if you have any kind of inspection process. The bad news is if you miss a primer you can leak a lot of powder into the system and you'll eventually get the shell plate or primer system gunked up enough to have problems. So if you're not sure if a primer went in, check it immediately and you'll save some work later.

[cloudsurfr]

I have a small portable shop vac that i use to clean up when powder spills. Keeps everything clean and running smoothly.

Looking forward to not making a mess - constantly messing with things working up loads and doing small runs of primers - i don't think i've even come close to getting my rhythm for production. Already 3 caliber changes (9, 40, 45) and only 400'ish made. Once i have my recipe's chrono'd and all dialed in, then we will see if i can get some output and rhythm going!

[Eljay]

My advice would have been to just do one caliber, do load development, pick a load, go into production, make a thousand of them, and then and only then consider the next caliber.

[ShadowX]

Polish the powder funnel and your life will be much easier with flake powders like 700X. There are tons of other useful mods like reducing the spring tension on the detent ball bearings for the shell holder.

[cloudsurfr]

If that's refering to me - understood. I know swapping around is a PITA and time consuming. I plan to run at least 1k of each before swapping. At this point i'm just doing my load developments to get some recipes "dialed in". Then i'll have something to make a run of ammo for the range. And as i'm learning i figure it's a good time to get some repetition on swapping components around! Biggest PITA so far is swapping L-S or S-L primers! I can see why some of the nicer setup have one press for SP, other for LP!

I also had my buddy buy the .40 quick swap/dies/etc. as he has an STI he wants to shoot more, so i offered to help if he got the needed bits for my press. A good excuse to hang w/ a friend and reload a bit.

I was thinking of polishing my powder funnel and didn't. I might try this for when i want to try some more difficult powders (primarily titegroup currently). I do have the low detent ball and spring already. And skijump fix, and spent primer tube catch bottle, etc.

While i'd love to crank out some quantity ammo to stock up for the range, half of the fun is the fiddling and load workups!

Thanks!

[ShadowX]

If that's refering to me - understood. I know swapping around is a PITA and time consuming. I plan to run at least 1k of each before swapping. At this point i'm just doing my load developments to get some recipes "dialed in". Then i'll have something to make a run of ammo for the range. And as i'm learning i figure it's a good time to get some repetition on swapping components around! Biggest PITA so far is swapping L-S or S-L primers! I can see why some of the nicer setup have one press for SP, other for LP!

I also had my buddy buy the .40 quick swap/dies/etc. as he has an STI he wants to shoot more, so i offered to help if he got the needed bits for my press. A good excuse to hang w/ a friend and reload a bit.

I was thinking of polishing my powder funnel and didn't. I might try this for when i want to try some more difficult powders (primarily titegroup currently). I do have the low detent ball and spring already. And skijump fix, and spent primer tube catch bottle, etc.

While i'd love to crank out some quantity ammo to stock up for the range, half of the fun is the fiddling and load workups!

Thanks!

Polishing the funnel is a very easy mod and it makes a huge difference in reliability of the powder volume and weight. I couldn't get 700X to meter properly (one of the hardest powder to meter on any powder measure device) and after the polishing, I was able to get very consistent powder drops within half a grain. I couldn't even get that reliability on my Redding match grade powder measure. The flatten pancake powder tends to get trapped and cause all kinds of problems.

[cloudsurfr]

Thanks ShadowX. I ran some 700x last night (to chrono/compare with titegroup in .45) - it was a bit of a pain. At least compared to measuring out titegroup...

I might be pulling the powder measure in the next day or two and trying to polish it up. I'll see if i have the compounds for my dremel and try to be cautious about doing it.

[ShadowX]

Thanks ShadowX. I ran some 700x last night (to chrono/compare with titegroup in .45) - it was a bit of a pain. At least compared to measuring out titegroup...

I might be pulling the powder measure in the next day or two and trying to polish it up. I'll see if i have the compounds for my dremel and try to be cautious about doing it.

Its actually not that bad. The surfaces inside the funnel is relatively smooth. You just need 600 to 2000 grit sandpaper to do the initial smoothing by hand. Afterwards, you can use any polishing compound like Flitz and use a dremel buffing tool head and make it shiny as possible. You also need to polish the end of the funnel right where it goes into the powder measure bar. Some people polish the surfaces around the bar to make it smoother also, but its optional.

The powder inconsistency is mainly caused by the powder not dropping into the powder measure chamber. You may also need to run a few loads first when you first start loading. The first 10 or so may not be consistent since the power may not be evenly compacted. Some people attach a fish pump to the power drop, but I found it to be even less consistent doing it that way. The motion of the powder bar moving provides enough vibration to have consistent drops. I also polished the lever arm that slides over the powder drop bar. The stock bar has very rough stamped surfaces. By smoothing it out, it makes the slide not bind as it contacts the drop bar. Its not necessary for consistent powder drops, but it makes the operation smoother for me.

[ShadowX]

Here is a simple mod that I made that also help make reloading much easier for me and its cheap.

I took the screw out of the plastic piece that contacts the primer indexer. Instead, I found some plastic dry wall anchor that happens to slide into the hole on the plastic piece perfectly. Now, whenever I don't want the primer to index I just grab the plastic piece and pull it out. The insert provides enough friction to hold the plastic indexer in place and not fall out. All I have to do is yank it out when I don't want the primer to index. I hate having the primer index while I am setting up the bullet seating and other stages or using a test casing to check the powder charge. Saves me from having a pile of live primer in the chute and having to put them back in the tubes. The hard part is to find the right anchor or plastic insert that will fit just fine and provide enough grip.