Hornady changes everything...

[OpenSightsOnly]

I'm sure Hornady will keep the Amax/Vmax around.

ELD will be marketed upscale (hmm, going after Berger?) for an extra edge past 600 yards - heat shield baby! lol

[M27]

Seems to only be an issue at longer ranges...sounds like below 700 yards or so it's not an issue.

So why would they need to stop selling the A and V Max?

The new product addresses heat not distance. At distance the problems are more visible but that does not mean they are not there closer in.

[Metal God]

This is very interesting to me . I have some fantastic loads using 178gr A-Max's . I how ever have noticed on occasion that my groups go south at and past 300yds . I always figured it was something I did in the loading process because they more often then not shoot lights out . This has me rethinking everything and wondering how much time and money I've wasted trying to fix the un-fixable . I think an E-mail to Hornady is in there future .

[NiteQwill]

Well then... I'm glad I used my last box of 6.5 AMAX bullets.

And placed an order with PV for several thousand Berger's hybrid bullets to replace them.

[JDay]

and .22lr when can now ALSO be reloaded thanks to microprimers... See? They are changing the game...

Reloading .22 is old news.

http://22lrreloader.com/

[JMP]

So, Hornady finally got a doppler? It would be interesting for them to test the Berger Hybrid bullets on their doppler as the Bergers still seem to have higher BCs. Lapua has been using doppler for years, and that's one of the reasons they've had consistently low published BCs.

[LynnJr]

How many shooters here have ever picked up a fired bullet and noticed a melted tip.
And if this is brand new does that mean my 50BMG Hornady bullets with an aluminum tip are no good?
What about my 60 year old bronze points?

[Metal God]

My E-mail to Hornady . I will post there reply when I get it .

Ok I'm sure you are getting this question a lot after putting out the ELD video . I still have to ask though , Did you guys just say in not so many words that your A-Max & V-Max bullets polymer tips are faulty and cause issues in flight you never knew was happening before ?

1) Do you have any conclusive data that shows how consistent these polymer tips degradation is ?

This very well could explain why I have at times some inconsistent results using the 178gr A-max in 308 at distances at and past 300yds . I always figured it was something I did in the loading process because they more often then not shoot lights out . This has me rethinking everything and wondering how much time and money I've wasted trying to fix the un-fixable .

2) I'm asking do you have data explaining how much the melting of your polymer tips effect your bullets in flight ?

3) Is there a velocity and or caliber you have found that causes the issue more then others ?

It seems at face value that you just confirmed what I have concluded through testing . That is if you want a consistent long range bullet . The A-Max is not it .

4) Will you be changing the A-Max tips to these new tips or just discontinuing the line ??

I know you like to keep your reply short but I would appreciate it if you would answer each question individually .

Thank you

[71MUSTY]

I heard theyb were going to start painting the tips of all their ammo green as a tribute (snub) to Eric Holder.

[ar15barrels]

To quote the video "The drag properties were changing very rapidly at high velocity."

Sounds closer than 700 yards to me.

The damage could be hapenning in the first 100yds.
Won't matter if you don't shoot them past 600yds.
The PROBLEM is that the BC changes and THAT matters at longrange FAR more than at shorter ranges like 600yds and closer.
You can shoot ROUND NOSE bullets to 600yds without a problem.

[ar15barrels]

This is very interesting to me . I have some fantastic loads using 178gr A-Max's . I how ever have noticed on occasion that my groups go south at and past 300yds .

Past 300yds is where wind and ES start to show up in groups.
This is why I recommend developing loads at 400yds.
If a load shoots excellent at 400yds, it almost always shoots excellent closer.
Loads can shoot excellent at 100yds and NOT shoot well at 400yds.

Testing at 400yds gives a MUCH more readable change in groups so it's easier to see the effect of something you change when trying different things.

[Victor Cachat]

OK, I want all of my poly-tipped bullets replaced!
Where is my recall notice?

[stilly]

I was watching the video and I was like, OMG, he is gonna say that "We needed to find something with a higher melting point, and we found that LEAD worked the best..."

Then I lost interest. Game changer? Sorry. Not for everyone. I will put my .45 160gr up against melted pointy bullets any day, I might just have to lob a tad higher...

[hermosabeach]

750 amax

To quote the video "The drag properties were changing very rapidly at high velocity."

Sounds closer than 700 yards to me. I for one am no longer going to buy A-max or V-max bullets.

Plummeting sales would dictate they stop making them.

The 750 grain amax is one hell of a round.... I hope they don't discontinue it

[Metal God]

Yep I test at 200 & 300 yards not longer because of the wind factor . 400yds would seem to introduce to much wind for me to conclude a load was good . Couple weeks ago I had a hard time keeping my 223 -77gr loads inside of 1.5moa at 200yards do to wind . I'd hate to think what those groups would have looked like at 400yds . I should have never been testing in the afternoon with changing wind gust of 10mph Shooting in those conditions is a must to learn wind calls but not good for load development .

This was just brought to my attention and answers many of my questions and likely going to be there response to my email

http://www.hornady.com/support/heat-shield

To correct the issue of tips deforming from aerodynamic heating, Hornady engineers identified and developed tips from a new class of polymer. These new, patent pending Heat Shield tips provide a consistent BC throughout the bullets entire flight path. This is due to Heat Shield material’s greater heat capacity and also having a melting point roughly 2.5 times greater than currently used tips.

The Hornady 6.5mm 140gr A-Max is a very popular match bullet. Its long-time published G1 BC of .585 has been measured with chronographs at the muzzle, 100 and 200 yards. The radar verifies that exact BC out to 200 yards. When fired at 800 yards; however, the radar verified average BC it is actually .545. This is because of the polymer tip melting and deforming during flight. When the traditional tip is replaced with a Heat Shield tip, the Radar verified 800 yard average BC becomes .610 – a huge improvement! Why a .610 when we already established a 200 yard BC of .585? The .610 BC shows that the traditional tip was already exhibiting degradation at 200 yards.

As mentioned, moderate and low BC tipped bullets (less than .550 G1) are not significantly affected. Case in point: a 22 caliber 50gr V-Max with a conventional polymer tip, fired at 3,700 fps, has a 400 yard radar verified average BC of .232. With a Heat Shield tip, it still had a BC of .232. Similarly, a 7mm 162gr SST has a 500 yard radar verified average BC of .520. When tested with a Heat Shield tip, it only gained a small amount of BC - .532. The .012 increase in BC is too small to matter on this bullet at any distance this bullet would expand on game.

That leads me to conclude they will change all bullet tips with a BC of 550 and above to the new style . It also sadly leads me to believe that my issue with the 178gr A-Max is the nut behind the wheel . Damn and I was all ready to blame it on something else .