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**TacticalPlinker** · 03-15-2014, 6:51 AM

I hear ya. I'll say this, they both have pro's & con's. I eventually grew tired of Windows, moved to Linux but found it just too unfriendly, and then moved to OS X.

While OS X does take some getting used to, I found my way around very soon and I can basically do anything with OS X that I can do with Windows. With a few exceptions, but that can usually be solved via VM, dual boot or an emulator program.

OS X was always faster, more stable, more secure, and just seemed to work better. I love the way programs install and uninstall, that's a huge plus. Other than most software being Windows only, I had very few complaints in regards to OS X.

Come to think of it, the past few months I've been using Windows 7 exclusively (on my MacBook Pro no less), and I'll most likely go back to OS X sooner than later.

But we live in a Windows world. Personally, my school work was difficult at times not having access to Windows, and sometimes work can require it as well.

I'll leave it at that. It's hard to say go one way or the other.

**LittleOldLady** · 03-15-2014, 6:57 AM

If you are a hardcore gamer MAC has its downside. I have three games I play, one is a browser based so ok there. The other two are STO and I run that one in a WINE wrapper. The final one is NFSW and I could not get that one to work on OS/X with the wrapper so I dual booted Win7 just to play that game.
I am not a gamer though so I have no need of Windows other than that.
I have been in the field since back in the Commodore VIC20 home computer system and on up.
I love OS/X and I am with TacticalPlinker, OS/X just works no fuss no muss.
The one thing that I am upset about is my DVD burner. I rarely ever use it. I think I have used it about 4-5 times and now it is broken and will not read/write/work!
What I would do differently is NOT get the iMAC and get a tower so I could work on it easier for upgrades etc, but I did not have the extra cash.

**XDRoX** · 03-15-2014, 8:13 AM

I was a PC user my whole life. I started withe the Commodore 64 back when I was 8 I think.

About 5 years ago I built a high end PC.

But times change and so did I. I know have a wife and three kids kids. My priorities changed. I need a computer that works, period. And the PC's I've had didn't. They required maintenance that I just don't have time for anymore. It got pretty exhausting every time my wife needed to do something for me to have to help her through a problem because the PC would freeze or wouldn't work right or needed an update or had some other problem.

We don't use our PC for games but we do use it for everything else. Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Photoshop, internet browsing, email, etc...

Just this past January I finally got sick and tired of PC problems and went out and bought a Mac. So it's only been a couple months but we couldn't be happier with the purchase.

The computer simply works. It's like a Toyota. It cost a little more but it runs. And that's what is most important to me. It took a few days to get use to OS X but now it's easy to use.

I don't ever see me buying a PC again. No reason to IMO. I've out grown them.

Just in case you didn't know the new iMac's don't come with a CD drive so I had to buy one separately. I bought an Apple superdrive for like $75. I was OK without it but my wife still likes using discs for certain things.

Since I bought the iMac I've put on $170 Microsoft Office and a $1600 Adobe Masters. Photoshop looks amazing on the iMac and is really fun to use.

The mouse has a touchscreen top like an iPhone and reads finger gestures for easier navigating. I did activate the old PC "Right Click," as I couldn't help but keep trying to use it.

**the86d** · 03-15-2014, 9:02 AM

I too am VERY tired of Windows shortcomings, and actually supported ~1600 Windows users via Pear Linux for 6 months, when I got pissed off at Win7x86.
Windows 7 x86 actually ran better in a VM than natively on a quad-core Phenom, AND a Core2Quad.

PCs can also run Linux, or *BSD* as the "native" OS, can a Mac without an additional purchase of VM stoftware?

Macs EOL's OS updates faster than M$, don't they? XP came out in 2001, and just gets EOL'd next month (4/2014). THAT IS a good run.

I know a guy that has a father-in-law that bought Macs for the whole office to have the Mac experience on the desktop. He then had to buy windows for all, and VM software of them to run an application that his office purchased as they don't make much software for small companies for Macs. He had to pay about 4x as much as he would have for PCs. The problem is that most software for offices doesn't run on Macs...

**Mute** · 03-15-2014, 9:13 PM

I have extensive time with both OS. I hate Mac OS.

**mudbass7** · 03-15-2014, 9:37 PM

Originally posted by sd_shooter

I have been a computer user for a long time: first machine was a ZX81 w/ 1KB RAM and I learned to program on it

For most of my life I've been a PC/Windows user and have stuck with it since all the world uses the system and there's never a time when a piece of HW isn't supported and there's an app for everything.

But... Windows stinks!
- Even uninstalling a piece of crapware takes forever. The system has to "gather information" about the install and crunch on my hard drive.
- If there's no network or the link is bad, Windows hangs up, freezes, pauses. This is true of my home machine (Vista64) and my work machine (Win7 Pro.)
- The pausing/hanging can take place at other times as well.
- My system partition has swollen to 80G after all the Windows "updates" over the last 5 years. I only have ~10G of actual applications installed.

I've already tried linux and used it for years. Eventually I got sick of the endless update cycle and fighting software incompatibilities. I use linux at work (cmd line, GUI) and I love it, but it's no good for home use.

I'm thinking of switching. A high end 'Pro' PC (eg. nice Lenovo laptop) costs about the same as a Mac, around $1500. (OTOH a cheap laptop is $500 or less so I'm hesitant to blow an extra $1k.) I've been to Apple stores before but it feels like I'm in Whole Foods.

Mac guys who have switched from a PC: Is the grass greener over there?

The crapware comes from the branding of your PC. you dont want that and there are places you can get a good computer without all the bloatware.
Get a registry cleaner and it will relieve some of your built up OS junk. also remember to defrag and clean out other things like temp files, downloads, etc. there are programs that assist you in "one clicking" these away.
If you spend as much on a PC as you would on a MAC, i think you will find that most of your problems will disappear. A lot of peoples complaints about PCs usually stem from the fact that there are so many budget models and others built very cheaply in order to satisfy the pocketbook of a larger market. Spend the money on a quality computer and You'll be satisfied.

- computer builder.

**ocabj** · 03-15-2014, 9:57 PM

I stopped caring a long time ago what other people in my work environment run for their own OS as long as it doesn't disrupt productivity.

Plus, I don't handle user device support. We have a help desk for that.

Note that while the help desk personnel will build out and or provision workstations/laptops for staff in the office, everyone in my group (basically the "systems administrators") handles their own devices.

The only time someone else's choice of an OS affects me is when collaborating on MS Office based documents, such as Word. It's always the Linux users with Openoffice that mess up the various extended markups within .doc and .docx such as the editing notes, etc.

Other than that, a person's choice in an OS in my group won't affect their ability to sysadmin hosts, write code/scripts, and conduct standard devops tasks.

As far as why I choose Mac, it's because I want the balance of both commercial and open source software in the native OS. Mac OS X pretty much gives me the GUI I've always wanted out of *nix since 1997, and I get all the flexibility of working in a BSD/Unix environment while editing photos (Photoshop and Lightroom) and video (Premiere). Back in the 90's I ran Cygwin in Windows, but I found various issues porting code from *nix to Cygwin, that I just switched to Linux for my development environment.

And that's what you need to key on when choosing your computer (hardware and OS): Will it effectively and efficiently handle the tasks you need it for? Forget how it works for other people. All that matters is how it will work for you.

**Capybara** · 03-15-2014, 10:10 PM

I have used, owned and bounced between both platforms for years. I went 100% Mac about ten years ago for my business (video production company) but my wife and son still had PCs and I took a two year corporate job recently where my work computer was a PC. so unlike many, I have truly lived in both worlds for two decades.

Here are some observations...

1. Windows has improved a lot. Older versions were so bug ridden and craptastic that it was a miracle they even functioned. Windows 7 and now 8 are much more stable than older versions.

2. I would agree that if gaming is important, a PC is a better choice. Fortunately I despise gaming so that's not a concern for me, but it could be for you.

3. If you like to edit, consume and work with media, especial Photoshop, video editing, motion graphics or sound design, Macs bury PCs in general. Not that you can't do those things on PC, you can, it's just that the tools available and the OS on the Mac is superior for media generation and or consumption.

4. Macs are, in general, built better than the average PC. You can build a custom PC that is built very well for $2 or 3k, but if you compare a $1,500.00 PC with a $1,500.00 Mac, the Mac will just have a higher perceived quality of build and materials.

5. I have helped four friends and families switch over from PC to Mac. It isn't always seamless, can be a bit of a challenge but overall, if your needs are fairly average, not that difficult to make the switch.

Good luck.

**CurlyDave** · 03-15-2014, 10:12 PM

In the mid 80s I started with windows, but quickly got frustrated. The big problem was that I needed to have a sort of a "cheat sheet" reminding me of some critical items and information I had to keep track of to make the computer actually work.

I tried a Mac, and the frustration went away. Apple had realized that it was a computer, perfectly capable of keeping track of all those niggling details on its own so I didn't have to.

Things got better and better for a while, then companies started to have IT departments which supported the PCs they had for their workers. It was soon noticed that Mac shops required fewer IT workers than Windows shops, and the fate of the Mac was sealed. No IT manager would ever recommend a computer which would lead to a smaller IT department. He always wanted more people which led to more salary and more importance for himself.

But smaller shops, who couldn't afford an IT department, still liked Macs better.

Right now I am retired, DW does consulting, and I have started picking up some consulting also. Anything I have to do, I can do better and more easily on my Mac, and I don't have to hire an IT department. She started out an ardent windows user and is now a mac convert for 10 years.

Get a Mac and buy the Applecare for it. If you have any trouble with it you can call a tech support person who lives either in the US or Canada. No mysterious foreign accents to decipher.

If you live in a city with an apple store, they offer classes for very reasonable rates. And, if you have a hardware problem, they will fix it in the store. If they have to ship the computer off, if you have a credit card, they will sell you a different one which is fully returnable for 100% credit within 2 weeks. I have used this service and it works just like advertised. No hassle on the return and no BS. Just a credit back to your card.

**randomBytes** · 03-15-2014, 11:38 PM

I've not used windows, (ok I did once have one on my desk at work for calendar about 15 years go - hated it - the modal UI is horrible).

Since the CP/M days, I've mostly used unix (SunOS and BSD).
I bought an iMac several years ago for iMovie - it "just works".

I used to run BSD on my laptops, but when work made Mac's available, I switched. OS/X annoys me a lot, but is way better than Windows and still lets me run Outlook for calendar (sucks but no choice), and a decent browser.

Of course is all depends on what you use computers for - I don't play games at all, I write software and docs, email chat etc.

The thing I find most annoying about OS/X is lack of documentation and support. Its "user friendly" who needs docs? Yeah sure. When something goes
wrong and you google - you can find lots of folk with the same problem
but few answers.

At least on BSD I have the source, as well as the man pages.

I really like the Mac Air, battery life is good (so far).

**stilly** · 03-16-2014, 2:00 AM

I am a mac hater but this is a nice thread. I am glad to see that it was started correctly and that all of the input that folks have contributed has been positive and somewhat only slightly biased if biased at all. In other words, Glad there are no GET A MAC THEY FIX EVERYTHING comments...

I will probably always be a PC guy because it is what I do. It took about a month to adjust, but when I got picked up to work as an intern for the city on their helpdesk, I got dropped into windows 7 with office 2013. I was not familiar with Windows 7, but now I find myself speccing out the machines so that I can build a nice win7 machine at the house when we upgrade. Not to mention now I want dual monitors.

There is ONE maybe TWO macs that we encounter from time to time, but now that folks are getting iPads, and funny how several if not most of the helpdesk guys all have iPads of some sort, I got a chance to administer one or two via iTunes and well. The enemy looks somewhat impressive up close.

As for graphics, one thing that I have always wondered was if MAC just wanted to be faster or if PC did not care to be faster, but it seems that many earlier MACs that I have opened up were SCSI based where most PC folks don;t even know what SCSI is. You bring up terminator and they think of a movie for some odd reason... I kinda see the MACs as being the new GOOD political party to go with, they have inteligence, they are quick and they are gaining support, where I am wondering if all those years, the PC movement has been about keeping the poor folks barely moving around at slow speeds (while macs zoomed past with bigger pipes). So MAYBE PCs were just holding us all back...

Anyways, I will be a PC for life, but the problem I think has been Microsoft. They, along with Intel had such a large hold and monopoly (yes they did too!) on PC hardware and software that it was a tough fight for AMD and others to squeeze in for consumers. While they fought it out, Macs stayed as they were and just kept developing into better machines.

Yeah anyways, I am not a hardcore gamer, but I DO love my Skyrim and CS: Global Offensive as well as FA and SupCom. With everything opening up in the world today, things seem to be a bit easier to build and customize your own PC. Macs never seem to want to let that go. I never heard about building your own MAC from scratch. I never understood why they never allowed that, but I would think that with the right PC parts, you can build an intel based system and install OSX and have little to no problems on it...

Okay I am done and it is late have a nice one folks.

**breakd0wn** · 03-19-2014, 1:55 PM

Windows 7 all the way

I'm a lifelong PC guy. Been using Linux since '93 but in general, I do most of what I need to do (business and entertainment) in Windows. I build my own computers (except laptops).

A new PC running Windows 7 64bit is the way to go. A new quadcore system with 32GB RAM is the way to go. 16GB can be enough for some people, but 32GB is recommended so that you can outright disable swap files.
Windows 8 and 8.1 is a travesty. Worse than Vista.

This is what you do:
Buy a new (PC) computer. Don't pay attention to what OS it comes with.
Install and format with Windows 7
Install apps, etc.

NEVER disable UAC (User account control: when the screen dims and asks you if you want to proceed). This feature is the last line of defense against installing things that require administrative level access. Don't use an admin account so that you have to type a password in to allow UAC to continue. Yes, it can be a bear when installing things, but that's the idea: you don't install all that often, and you shouldn't be having to enter your admin credentials on a regular basis. If your program requires admin privileges, it was not written properly for Windows Vista and newer.

Get MS Security essentials, or Avast antivirus. Both are fee. Avast is better but a little naggy. UAC + a decent antivirus + a modicum of caution will make your computer very hard to infect. Kaspersky if you want to get a paid for AV program (and Fry's often has it for free after rebates)

Here is info regarding where to get Windows 7 install media and how to install:

You will need the following:
Blank CD and DVDs or 4GB+ Flash drive
Working computer to download and burn CDs or create bootable flash drives
Bittorrent software, web browser

Step 1:
Download and create Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit (refreshed version) ISO or Boot USB:

http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-59465.iso

Make boot CD or use this tool to create bootable USB:

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/html/pbPage.Help_Win7_usbdvd_dwnTool

Install Windows.

Step 2: Activate Windows BEFORE DONIG ANYTHING ELSE (windows 7 loader 2.2.1 by daz from TPB):
Get Windows 7 loader:

Parked at Loopia

http://bit.ly/1d7odHH

Step 3:
Get Chipset and Network drivers if needed from Intel, AMD, whatever. Good luck

Step 4:
Windows update.

Additional stuff: *** BE CAREFUL - Don't install extra junk. Pay attention during installation. Uncheck boxes for unnecessary software. ***

Firefox - https://download-installer.cdn.mozil...tub%2026.0.exe
(Download the rest using Firefox)
(Install missing drivers if needed before continuing. Download using Firefox)
Adobe Flash (Firefox) - http://aihdownload.adobe.com/bin/liv...sd_aaa_aih.exe
Adobe Flash (IE) - http://aihdownload.adobe.com/bin/liv...sd_aaa_aih.exe
Adobe Shockwave (don't install Norton) - http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get...aller_Slim.exe
Adobe Reader - http://aihdownload.adobe.com/bin/liv...sd_aaa_aih.exe
Java - http://javadl.sun.com/webapps/downlo...BundleId=81819
MS Silverlight - http://silverlight.dlservice.microso...rlight_x64.exe
MS Security Essentials - http://mse.dlservice.microsoft.com/d...mseinstall.exe
7-zip - http://downloads.sourceforge.net/sevenzip/7z920-x64.msi
(after installing 7-zip, right click on '7-Zip file Manager', run as administrator, go to tools, option, select everything except ZIP, apply, OK, close)

Don't install Google Chrome as administrator. Download & install it to the user, and when asked for administrator credentials, choose no. Chrome installer will ask if you want to install without administrator privileges. Choose yes.

Google Chrome - The Fast & Secure Web Browser Built to be Yours

http://google.com/chrome

Chrome is the official web browser from Google, built to be fast, secure, and customizable. Download now and make it yours.

**billofrights** · 03-19-2014, 2:28 PM

**Jimmy Deuce** · 03-19-2014, 4:10 PM

Go Windows 7 64 bit (32 bit is good but memory limitation)

Installed Windows 7 pro on custom build. Nothing crazy. Has been super stable and very few if any OS related problems. I find often times the user creates problems in Windows. Mac is also good. But why pay so much when you easily have a great performing computer for half the price as long as you use a little discretion in your activities.

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