Mid Life Career change to IT/coding???

[MrFancyPants]

Get A+, Network + and Security+ certifications, and then start your training indepth training, you need to decide where you want to specialize too. i.e web design, networking, programming, servers. etc

All worthless certs when applying for worthwhile positions, especially for a programmer. If you're going to spend the time and money to get certified, you're much better off with vendor certs: Cisco, Microsoft, VMware, Red Hat, etc. I got my A+ ages ago, hasn't helped me get a single job. Once I got Cisco and VMware certified, all kinds of doors opened up. Those are the ones that impress employers.

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[MrFancyPants]

Mid-life? IT is a field where age discrimination is the rule rather than an exception. In IT, no matter how cheap you are willing to work, skill level and experience are not nearly as valued as youth.

This is definitely not true. Maybe you've seen this in places where you've worked, but the vast majority of the field is not like this. I guarantee you when employers are looking for high level network engineers, they'll take a candidate with a CCNP or CCIE and years of experience over a wet behind the ears newcomer every time, no matter the age. When the network is under attack or a router fails, they want somebody who can fix it half an hour ago, not a noob who only has experience resolving issues at home in Packet Tracer where there's no pressure.

Now maybe coding is different, as younger guys are generally more innovative with sharper minds and usually are familiar with the latest languages. I do a lot of Powershell coding and write modules and scripts for systems automation, but I'm not a straight up programmer so I haven't been exposed to that side as much.

As far as the OP is concerned, just starting an IT career in mid life is probably an uphill battle for sure. Knowing what I know from my experience in the industry, no way would I start an IT career at this point in my life. I have no doubt being green AND older can play against you in the field.

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[sholling]

This is definitely not true. Maybe you've seen this in places where you've worked, but the vast majority of the field is not like this. I guarantee you when employers are looking for high level network engineers, they'll take a candidate with a CCNP or CCIE and years of experience over a wet behind the ears newcomer every time, no matter the age.

CCIE is not an entry level position and is an exception to the rule but only because good ones, especially really young ones, are rare as hen's teeth.

Now maybe coding is different, as younger guys are generally more innovative with sharper minds and usually are familiar with the latest languages.

It has little to do with sharp minds other than in the bigotry of young managers who don't want employees their dad's age. I've even had headhunters tell me that many employers discourage them from even forwarding resumes from any applicants over 40.

As far as the OP is concerned, just starting an IT career in mid life is probably an uphill battle for sure. Knowing what I know from my experience in the industry, no way would I start an IT career at this point in my life. I have no doubt being green AND older can play against you in the field.

Exactly my point.

OP,

As for A+, Network+, and Security+ certifications, those, if you are lucky and have a strong back will give you a shot at working for Geek Squad or the local equivalent, or maybe help land an internal promotion from the mailroom to an entry level desktop support tech. Frankly (other than Geek Squad) most entry level tech positions tend to be from either internal promotions for smart computer enthusiasts (usually a good idea) or because they're somebody's family member, buddy, or lover and don't make all that much. Tech managers just cannot take a chance that a credentialed idiot new hire with bottom of the barrel certs and no track record won't accidentally lose the CEO's data or blab confidential salary information from the VP of HR's laptop.

[wjc]

Internships are usually for young students either currently in a bachelor/masters program or soon to graduate.

It's very difficult to jump into a new career if over a certain age...say 30.

I personally spent a boatload of money to get training and a certification for a new role (project management) and after three years I finally got a part-time job at Home Depot.

YMMV

[pchang1201]

In my experience, and I've been programming for a living since the early 1990s, it's extremely difficult to get a programming job these days without being an experienced programmer; basically a catch-22 situation. Many jobs have been outsourced and with the advent of frameworks the need for grunt programmers has been greatly reduced. Anyone can learn how to program in java in a month, but writing robust, solid, and complex code is much harder to do so companies value experience for on-site staff.

In addition programming is not all the same since programmers who work with financial companies do different types of programming than those who write games. Experience and knowledge in the industry is a big plus in terms of who gets hired and retained.

I worked in the San Francisco Bay Area so things may be different elsewhere in Calif.
These days it's much harder to get a foot in the door than it was before.

[FatOnCoke]

If you have 30 years of experience on your resume that isn't related to what I want/need, I will not call you.
By looking at your resume, I can't tell how low you are willing to take in pay. I will not attempt to cheat you by offering you a low salary. To me you just need a temporary job until you find something better or aligned with your experience and leave. Managers that are willing to hire you at a low pay either is helping you or screwing you. The screwing you work environment is bad.

in short.. very difficult move...

[cyclopes85]

Graduated with a programming degree from a 4 year university and couldn't find a job for more than 13 bucks an hour... Granted, this was back in 2007. Programming requires lots of practice to be as competent as someone who has been doing it for years. There's also lots of languages to choose from. Out of college it would have taken me days to produce what a seasoned developer could make in literally minutes. This is one of the reasons it's hard to get a foot in the door. Programming needs to be your hobby and job for you to excel in the industry.

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[Marauder2003]

I believe COBOL expertise is still needed these days. Everyone I know with COBOL retired years ago, including me. Makes the skill rarer and rarer.

Easy language to learn.

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Jobs/Cobol-Programmer

[Robotron2k84]

I would not recommend COBOL as entry-level. Without an understanding of database architecture and specifically IBM systems, you are liable to have a short-lived career if you make a mistake against the employer's inventory or accounting systems.

[Marauder2003]

I would not recommend COBOL as entry-level. Without an understanding of database architecture and specifically IBM systems, you are liable to have a short-lived career if you make a mistake against the employer's inventory or accounting systems.

Holds true for any language. And any employer that lets programmers play with production databases deserves what happens.

How many newbie web programmers know how to code their GUI to prevent a SQL injection?

[jdfthetech]

Holds true for any language. And any employer that lets programmers play with production databases deserves what happens.

How many newbie web programmers know how to code their GUI to prevent a SQL injection?

It gets a bit scarier when you think of all the IOT vulnerabilities caused by young programmers. For instance, take a look at this dildonics exploit:

http://seclists.org/bugtraq/2018/Feb/0

[sbo80]

coding for companies filling DoD contracts is a bit more stable. Not a lot of "language of the month" stuff going on, very little web stuff. Military systems, like aircraft and missiles, need stable, well-established code bases. I work with coders every day, and they are proabably 50/50 for age being over/under 35. Most of the coding is not being creative/inventive, it's building systems to capability requirements. It pays good down in San Diego too.

[Paladin]

Thx for all the input/feedback, guys.

I'll read the posts and think it over for next few days.

[Robotron2k84]

Holds true for any language. And any employer that lets programmers play with production databases deserves what happens.

How many newbie web programmers know how to code their GUI to prevent a SQL injection?

I'm assuming you worked on an IBM mainframe, in DB2 or on an AS/400? 31-bit computer? EBCDIC? CICS? RPG?

Then you understand IBM COBOL databases really don't exist except in production roles because they are licensed by the hour / workload and require fine-grained knowledge of the above. COBOL is inherently tied to large vertical computing architectures. This is why my recommendation that it's not entry-level.

For the rest of the audience:

Mainframes historically had very poor data exchange mechanisms, meaning they were tied closely to the terminals (hard wired, later via networked emulation) and applications for real-time databases. This precluded staging and pre-prod environments as the cost to duplicate the infrastructure would not be justifiable. Yes, you could get a workspace assigned to you for testing, but it still wasn't like it is now with Dev / Staging / QA / Prod workflows. AS/400 broke that mold, with better networking, TCP/IP connectivity and reduced pricing, but it's still a relatively lightweight departmental server and can't handle every workload.

Modern mainframes run 64-bit z/OS, can run Unix and Linux programs, use a HFS for logical storage, have Java embedded, run application and web servers alongside the legacy code. But, you are likely looking at a SQL DB in such an environment and COBOL would be either redundant or undergoing porting to eliminate it.

Otherwise, if there is still COBOL running its 50/50 that you'd get some old OS/3x0 relic, as that's the last generation before the Z-Series made life a little more bearable beside Unix app servers. Current Z-Series can support 8000 Linux VMs in a single complex (roughly 2x 48U racks), with 170 multicore 5GHz CPUs and 3TB of RAM. If your workload can run on Power chips; compared to roughly 40 maxed out HP bladecenter chassis that takes up 20 racks plus network and SAN switches, for x86 / VSphere / HPC.

Mainframes are often water-cooled, further increasing their efficiency over regular servers, with hardware and software to enable zero downtime for maintenance and upgrades. The last cloud installation I consulted with still couldn't do this reliably for VMWare and commodity hardware. And they were a top-notch provider.

These systems are multi-million dollar investments because that's the need when running an automotive production line, installation for a global supply chain or accounting for a government agency, where an hour of downtime is measured in six or seven figures. Typically where you would still find legacy COBOL.

COBOL certainly exists outside of this space, but probably not in sufficient quantity to justify learning it.

[Paladin]

Trump is tackling on the H1B visa "loophole."

"H-1B Visa Program and Trump: How High-Skilled Immigrants Are Being Threatened by President’s Administration"

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=21360257