Underground Regulation: Non Rosterable Frames

[hoffmang]

Great job, guys. Just out of curiosity, who was the first one to realize that 12025 was not included in 12001?

The actual first person can't be named but he knows who he is. In a different regulatory environment he didn't want to make it public as we might have faced "fixup" legislation.

A Calgunner started a thread about pistol framed carbines. That made me look and I discovered the discrepancy anew.

-Gene

[383green]

He Who Cannot Be Named? I like the sound of that...

[7x57]

As long as it wasn't He Who Cannot Even Be Vaguely Alluded To.

7x57

[wash]

If a frame isn't a handgun, does this mean we can get more than one every thirty days?

[hoffmang]

If a frame isn't a handgun, does this mean we can get more than one every thirty days?

No. A frame is a firearm/handgun for the section of the Penal Code that limits us to one handgun in 30 days per 12001(c).

-Gene

[wash]

I guess that means we still need a handgun safety certificate?

I haven't bought a handgun in a while...

[thedrickel]

C&R + COE FTW!

[xxdabroxx]

This line in the frames letter really pisses me off, "A pistol must be tested and approved by a DOJ-certified handgun testing laboratory before it can be approved for sale in California. A handgun that is tested and approved is eligible for listing on DOJ's roster of handguns that have been determined 'not unsafe' and approved for sale to the public

and thanks Gene, Bill, and all others at CGF!

but did you have to use a Taurus pt1911 for the complete pistol and frame? really?

and what is Tidewater?

[Monte]

Time to start saving my pennies for a Pac Lite upper for the MkII

Ooh, good call, but would a serial numbered barreled upper qualify? I thought I read somewhere in one of these threads that the reason a frame didn't qualify as a firearm was because it didn't have the ability fire a projectile (I'm still trying to re-find that bit of info). It might be a bit of a stretch, since you'd have to futz around with it a bit to fire a round, but who knows.

[Librarian]

and what is Tidewater?

Tidewater Marine Western, Inc. v. Bradshaw, 14 Cal. 4th 557, 571 (1996)

We conclude that these interpretive policies do constitute regulations and therefore are void because they were not adopted in accordance with the APA. Nevertheless, we conclude that the agency properly exercised its enforcement jurisdiction and that the trial court erred in granting a permanent injunction barring enforcement.

Accordingly, we affirm the judgment of the Court of Appeal.

Generically, state agencies must follow the rules to create regulations.

[rkt88edmo]

Ooh, good call, but would a serial numbered barreled upper qualify? I thought I read somewhere in one of these threads that the reason a frame didn't qualify as a firearm was because it didn't have the ability fire a projectile (I'm still trying to re-find that bit of info). It might be a bit of a stretch, since you'd have to futz around with it a bit to fire a round, but who knows.

Good question - but what good is a barrelled upper without a bolt, firing pin, hammer, etc. - it definitely is not quite cleanly as cut since the MkII upper has a barrel and chamber - but still lacks the majority of what would make up a "handgun'.

[wildhawker]

As long as it wasn't He Who Cannot Even Be Vaguely Alluded To.

7x57

THAT is classic!

[7x57]

THAT is classic!

I wish it was original with me, but it isn't.

7x57

[CHS]

A Calgunner started a thread about pistol framed carbines. That made me look and I discovered the discrepancy anew.

-Gene

That was me

[CHS]

Ooh, good call, but would a serial numbered barreled upper qualify? I thought I read somewhere in one of these threads that the reason a frame didn't qualify as a firearm was because it didn't have the ability fire a projectile (I'm still trying to re-find that bit of info). It might be a bit of a stretch, since you'd have to futz around with it a bit to fire a round, but who knows.

Only a complete assembled handgun has the ability to fire. A pac-lite upper does not, even though it has a chamber.

The paclite does not come with a bolt, which also means it has no firing pin. The paclite uses your original bolt. There's also no hammer since that is part of the frame.

A paclite is a perfect NeRF example.