Oak Tree Gripe

[Merc1138]

Im not an AR aficionado but i thought as soon as a lower had a pistol grip installed it needed a BB. Hence all the BB equiped lowers I see for sale in gun stores.

Nope.

Now it could be possible that edgerly779 wanted them to remove the factory mag release so he could drop a BB in(not everyone has the mechanical aptitude, and better to just ask someone else for assistance than screw it up), but he didn't make it clear enough if that was the case.

Now if he simply had a completed lower transferred in and the people at the shop decided to remove the mag release for him... personally I'd have been fairly irritated if not pissed depending on the response if I had to tell a LGS to put it back and not play with my property.

[Steve_In_29]

Nope. It only needs one if you attach a centerfire, semi-auto upper and it's not a featureless build.

So why does the Calguns OLL assembly guide specify installing the bullet button as the first step (even before the pistol grip) in assembling a stripped AR lower to remain CA legal?

Why do people on the forums INSIST that only AFTER a rimfire upper is affixed should a person remove the BB when switching to a .22 upper at the range.

From what you stated as soon as a person removed their centerfire upper they could swap out the BB and just have an assembled (non-BB) lower sitting around. So non-BBed assembled lowers just sitting around the house are legal?

[Merc1138]

So why does the Calguns OLL assembly guide specify installing the bullet button as the first step (even before the pistol grip) in assembling a stripped AR lower to remain CA legal?

Why do people on the forums INSIST that only AFTER a rimfire upper is affixed should a person remove the BB when switching to a .22 upper at the range.

Because it's wrong, old, and written for the lowest common denominator.(edit: Also, check the date of the thread mentioned in that guide, then try to get a feel for the mindset of 2007, and the paranoia written into it might make a little more sense).

The simple fact is that a lower by itself is not a semiauto centerfire rifle, period.(edit again: Anyone insisting that the BB shouldn't be removed until a rimfire upper is attached is also wrong, and should be told that they're wrong as soon as possible. I suggest using this youtube clip WrjwaqZfjIY to further reinforce how wrong they are. There is a separate issue of a semiauto centerfire rifle without it's BCG and having a .22lr conversion kit sitting next to it and simply being a "broken AW" if it has no BB, but that's a separate issue)

From what you stated as soon as a person removed their centerfire upper they could swap out the BB and just have an assembled (non-BB) lower sitting around. So non-BBed assembled lowers just sitting around the house are legal?

Of course. Now if you're super paranoid and are worried that some dirty DOJ agent might put the semuato centerfire upper attached to your lower without a BB... maybe that's a concern to have, but otherwise it's irrelevant.

Maybe you don't have a tall enough safe for your 30" bbl bolt action upper and set the lower off to the side?

Maybe you were cleaning your .22lr build and didn't bother to put the lower back on it?

Maybe you were going to go featureless and only needed to swap out the grip?

There's no constructive possession in CA for an AR lower with or without a BB. And technically speaking, simply removing the mag release and leaving it without a mag catch wouldn't qualify as a fixed magazine even if it were an issue(like having a semiauto centerfire upper attached).

edit yet again(ffs, why didn't I just type all of this out the first time): If you still don't believe it, or have someone trying to tell you otherwise, there's always the "show me the PC" game, where the participant usually fails to explain where in the CA penal code(or any other code for that matter) how it's illegal, or cannot point out an applicable court case that sets precedence one way or the other.

[Steve_In_29]

So is this just a personal interpretation of the law or do the CalGuns Foundation lawyers back this up? They would go to bat for a person arrested for it?

[Merc1138]

So is this just a personal interpretation of the law or do the CalGuns Foundation lawyers back this up? They would go to bat for a person arrested for it?

Well, you could read a heck of a lot of threads on the topic in the centerfire semiauto rifle forum that have been posted over the years, call and ask, or let's play calguns favorite game...

Name,

That,

Penal code!

The reason I say that, is because there's nothing to interpret. With no law stating that a lower receiver is a semiauto centerfire rifle even if it doesn't have an upper attached, there is no reason to assume that is the case. The reason you can buy a lower(which is a firearm) all by itself stripped(and there's nothing in the PC that makes a distinction between a stripped and built lower) and not require a BB, is because it's not a semi auto centerfire rifle. And of course thee question to ask in response to your post is... "arrested for what?".

[The Gleam]

Am I the ONLY PERSON who's never had a negative experience at Oaktree? The only downside I've had was the increase in membership prices and firings of friendly employees. I've never had an issue with RO's, the pro shop or any of the ranges.

I have done about 8 dros with Oaktree for ftf and shipped firearms purchased on Gunbroker and have not had any big headaches with them. I had a firearm stolen from ups truck between Sylmar and Oaktree in newhall. They even took delivery of a lower without a bullet button and Shaun remved mag release till i got over there and put bb in. If I have a wait time I go and shoot some skeet or watch tv in club lounge and feed the big ugly friendly lab. Chill out or go elsewhere. I have been shooting there since 1974,

Thanks for your support... Love, Belinda.

[supermanuf]

Oak Tree Gripe

Always have a good time at their range and facilities, and their range officers are my favorite around, especially the guy always working the rifle range.

And nothing beats shooting steel all day then finishing up with a surprisingly good burger and a tall frosty beer.

I just dros'd a 10/22 with them, and it was $10 cheaper than the cheapest around, and was a painless experience, even during a busy time of day.

To the members with the torches and pitchforks: remember we need more ranges and gun shops, not fewer.

[The Gleam]

To the members with the torches and pitchforks: remember we need more ranges and gun shops, not fewer.

And they need more explanation than "huh? what?", and not more silence - on what was a very serious issue.

What THEY did is help a conditional and capitalizing element move leagues in a direction that will work to reduce gun ownership, by helping put a corporation on the map in the US that was simultaneously seeking to welcome legislation and assist in regulating firearms by pleading for hugs from the UN, schtumping to their International Action Network on Small Arms (IANSA) and genuflecting to the faction known as the International Small Arms Control Standards (ISACS) - WHICH.... would lead to LESS ranges and gun shops, not MORE.

So no, under no circumstance can I sanction or support a range or gun shop that does grossly negligent damage to help reduce the number of ranges and guns shops in this country - nor forgive them for never doing a single thing to explain or apologize for their arrogance and willful dissonance in staying silent and cowardly scuttling off hoping nobody would notice and people would forget.

I will never traverse their dusty paved parking lot ever again until they make amends. I can not simultaneously support two shooting ranges at the same time lest I were to clone myself, so I can just as easily support another range that is not pining to put 2nd Amendment Rights on a chopping block for self-serving profit.

Harsh you say?

Yes, I agree. What THEY did was harsh. Suck it Oak Tree.

[cudakidd]

Does anyone who is hating on otgc own a ruger? A 10/22?

[Steve_In_29]

Well, you could read a heck of a lot of threads on the topic in the centerfire semiauto rifle forum that have been posted over the years, call and ask, or let's play calguns favorite game...

Name,

That,

Penal code!

The reason I say that, is because there's nothing to interpret. With no law stating that a lower receiver is a semiauto centerfire rifle even if it doesn't have an upper attached, there is no reason to assume that is the case. The reason you can buy a lower(which is a firearm) all by itself stripped(and there's nothing in the PC that makes a distinction between a stripped and built lower) and not require a BB, is because it's not a semi auto centerfire rifle. And of course thee question to ask in response to your post is... "arrested for what?".

I asked a simple yes/no question and got a reply that avoided them both.

Have ANY of the Foundation's (or other) lawyers ever posted categorically that a BB isn't required for an assembled lower that isn't attached to a centerfire upper?

[Merc1138]

I asked a simple yes/no question and got a reply that avoided them both.

Have ANY of the Foundation's (or other) lawyers ever posted categorically that a BB isn't required for an assembled lower that isn't attached to a centerfire upper?

And as I said, I'm not going to dig through thousands of threads in the centerfire semiauto forum to reference something, you can. If I say "yes" the first(and obvious response) would be "Well show me the thread", and I've got better things to do than spend 4 hours reading through threads that I've already read.

What YOU can do, is ask here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/f...play.php?f=349 since there's now a more appropriate sub-forum for doing so. Of course why you seem to think there's something in CA's laws that causes an assembled AR-15 lower to be a semiauto centerfire rifle(when it's not a rifle, not semiauto, and not centerfire) is beyond me. If you want answers, for your questions, you can do the research.

[Merc1138]

Does anyone who is hating on otgc own a ruger? A 10/22?

Is the person at otgc who made that decision dead? Because Bill Ruger is.

[someoneeasy]

Always have a good time at their range and facilities, and their range officers are my favorite around, especially the guy always working the rifle range.

And nothing beats shooting steel all day then finishing up with a surprisingly good burger and a tall frosty beer.

I just dros'd a 10/22 with them, and it was $10 cheaper than the cheapest around, and was a painless experience, even during a busy time of day.

To the members with the torches and pitchforks: remember we need more ranges and gun shops, not fewer.

We do, but we need good shops and ranges, not these sad excuses for one. It's sad to see the good ones go out of business while these turds stay in business.

[cudakidd]

Is the person at otgc who made that decision dead? Because Bill Ruger is.

So? He died years after his anti gun pandering... and no apology ever from anyone at Ruger...but hypocrisy needs no logic I guess...

[Merc1138]

So? He died years after his anti gun pandering... and no apology ever from anyone at Ruger...but hypocrisy needs no logic I guess...

Yeah, because it's not like the company hasn't made a drastic change in mindset by selling ARs with standard capacity mags, producing a factory 25 round mag for the 10/22 and so on.

I could say the same thing about previous S&W management as well, except it's not hypocrisy since that management is no longer at S&W making anti 2a decisions(idiots are still in charge at Colt though, but that's not really a 2a problem, it's more of a lack of business sense).

OTGC tried(and in some ways succeeded) to shaft gun owners in this country, and the people responsible for that decision still seem to be there.