Where is the firearm hobby going?

[smle-man]

You need to go back a ways in history for some perspective. I wish I had the time and inclination to write an essay on this but I don't.

I will say that I am originally from Pittsburgh and attended many gunshows in the area for years. It was a fun place to be a shooter! I used to work at Braverman's in Wilkinsburg back in the 70s with Bernie, Buddy, and Jerry. Those were the days!

[Jimi Jah]

If you plan well, life is a hobby.

[Mayor McRifle]

Guns ARE my hobby and have been for over 40 years, I shoot, hunt, collect, build, tinker, modify, reload, buy, sell, trade ect, ect. It's what I do and it is a hobby.

Same here. I don't sell or trade my guns, but guns and the shooting sports have always been my hobby. It's in my blood.

There might be some confusion in what is meant by "hobby." Some people might view it as something you do, but don't really care about. I don't think that's what the OP meant. I view it as something we do, and something we are very passionate about. It's part of us, and it always will be. It's a big part of who we are and what we stand for.

Gun shows were fun for me in the 70's-90's.
Used to really enjoy Pomona. And Crossroads yrs ago.
But pretty much everyone I know doesn't bother with them anymore.
Mainly just a bunch of junk these days. No real ammo deals etc.
(On line ammo sales didn't help gun shows either)
$20.00 for entry and parking is also a turn off.
I still go to SHOT and Blade every year. That's about it.

Your collectable's would be better off being sold online.
That's where many collectors shop these days.

Just my opinion.

I agree. OP, I don't know what the gun shows are like in PA, but out here they've become commercialized, traveling flea markets. I used to think of a ton of cool guns when I thought of gun shows. Now I think of cheap knives and beef jerky. Most of the real "gun people" I know just don't go to them anymore. I blame the gun show organizers.

There is still a market for your quality collectibles. You'll have to look for other avenues to sell them, though.

[SuperSet]

Someone go make an ETSY version of ArmsList.

[MikeSmith]

What you're seeing is probably a lot of newcomers into the sport/hobby. The first thing newcomers do is buy cheap things in order to get introduced into the hobby. Then once they figure out quality is better over quantity you can expect some changes in the market. At least that is what I hope for. The last thing we need is guns made in China like everything else because that is what the majority of the public demands-cheaper prices over quality firearms that shoot when you need them too.

[IVC]

Collecting guns is the dumbest hobby I have ever heard of, my brother is into it and I simply do not understand the reason behind it. He has so many calibers that shooting becomes a chore, and he doesn't know any of his guns intimately enough to shoot them well. Sure he owns 50. But I know mine like the back of my hand.

Think of it as having different spices in the kitchen.

Sure you can feed on hot-dogs and use ketchup as the only condiment. Sure you can know how to operate your microwave like the back of you hand and cook those suckers to your taste every single time. Sure that's all you need if you see it as an equation on energy intake.

Then, there are fun foods, parties, different tastes, different cultures, different occasions, etc.

[Click Boom]

First I would like to say I am from out of state and am in Pennsylvania. I like this forum because I have never had one bad transaction and everyone has been nice so I felt like posting this here to get the other half of the nations opinion on this.

Over here in PA we pretty lax laws on firearms compared to a lot of other states and we have a lot more of the older guns here as well. We have a ton of little ma and pop stores all over the place and hunting is huge here, especially in western PA, our kids get off from school the first day of Buck.

Im 30 yrs old, my whole family has always collected guns and we have quit a few. Im talking about 4 42 gun safes full. We appreciate quality, and I was taught the value of older guns and their collectability.

I set up at guns shows every now and then to sell a few here and there if I need money for something else. I recently set up at a show and I had quality guns on my table at prices matching gun broker, scopes matching or even cheaper than ebay, and I did not sell 1 thing. Literally not one thing.

I had a franchi 2 barrel set, new CZ 20ga, weatherby lazermark, 2 citori 20ga, a new model Winchester 71, 2 pre 64 models 70's, a few Leupold and zeiss scopes as well.

I wasnt the only one who didnt sell anything either. a lot of the guys stated they wouldnt setup at a show again, its too costly. $50 for each table, travel, gas, time, ect. Basically, us vendors are losing money and paying for a gun show to not even make back the costs.

My point is, where is the hobby going? I sat across from a vendor who had 2 customers filling out forms all day each day. Literally, non stop they were selling these cheap rifles and handguns. Im talking about Savages, Hi points, cheap no name handguns and rifles. Is that really where our hobby is going?

I talked to one guy at the show, same age as me. He stated why would he buy a $900 model 70 when he can get a $400 savage or remington that does the same thing. I dawned on me that no one really cares about collecting or quality anymore. especially since everyones pocket books have gotten titer.

The guns you mentioned are kinda specific and something that an individual would probably think beforehand that he wants, and go out looking for the best price. The prices being asked on gunbroker are not the prices being got, or at least not consistently. 50 gunbroker auctions go unsold for every one that is sold. Same with ebay. now think how many more people look at gunbroker/ebay and how many passed by your table. You reached a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of the buying public. You will have to price way way below internet to get someone to bite on those. I just dont think 20ga shotguns are much of an "impulse buy." Unless they are an unbeatable deal. And gunbroker asking prices are just that. Asking. gotta look at what the completed listings are (have to have the pay membership to GB to see completed listings). And GB prices are available all day, 24/7, and no need to jump on one because there will always be others... so in the age of the internet people can afford to wait out the perfect deal instead of seeing something at a gun show that they might not have another crack at, ever. The guy selling hipoints was probably selling them at a cheap price and people know they cant get a better deal online, so he was getting them off.

I can say for a fact that people on this site spend a literally ton of money on guns. I probably have one of the smaller collections here and I had 10 or 12 droses this year, and countless rounds of ammo and accessories.

Basically, supply and demand, and gun shows cant compete with the internet.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a winchester model 70, it's a solid rifle. But at the price you were probably asking, i could buy a new tikka or 700 or whatever. (just guessing @ your price). Plus everyone is a huge lying turdpile about round counts, so if the price is even in the same ballpark ill buy new. I'll gladly buy used if it's a real steal- but guns are pricey whether theyre new or used so if it's an extra 20% to know the gun is coming factory fresh with a warranty, new barrel, etc, it's an option i'll usually take.

I dig guns with patina and character... but if they cost the same as the same gun fresh off the line.. well.

There are some fantastic collectors on this site, with interesting collections with stories and provenance and class.... I'm just not really one of them lol. I'd like to be, but I got bigger fish to fry at the moment. I've got full-blown gunitis, you don't buy pistols every single month because you NEED them, obviously, but I want the best deals possible on the things I shoot the best and can afford to shoot a lot. I am of a similar age to you, but I grew up in the bay area. Theres no buck season in oakland. people's parents dont have four 42 gun safes. I've been into shooting since the early 90's, and I have to admit the newer guns I have ('specially pistols) are just flat out nicer to shoot than the older ones. Same with MSR's, with the boom in aftermarket in the last 10 years or so. A nice old bolt action is beautiful, but it will have to be cheaper than the new version for me to buy it. I'm kinda starting out where your grandpappy was back in the day.. he probably bought mostly for utility, and picked up more stuff over the years, and then you have 4 42gun safes to inherit. maybe my descendents will have safes to inherit but i wont. And I am stocking up with state of the art stuff, just like your granddad was at the time. Those 1960's winchesters werent "collectors guns" when he bought them, they just became as much. Maybe my glocks and russian AK's and AR's will be collectors items in 2050 and people in 2050 will all be buying up 40 watt phased plasma rifles and some of them will say they have no class and reminisce about BCM and Saiga.

just my situation, since you asked. haha.

[Mayor McRifle]

Collecting guns is the dumbest hobby I have ever heard of,

Dumber than these hobbies?:

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-strangest-hobbies-in-the-world.php

http://www.cracked.com/article_19880_5-dumb-hobbies-you-wont-believe-have-world-championships.html

[greensoup]

First I would like to say I am from out of state and am in Pennsylvania. I like this forum because I have never had one bad transaction and everyone has been nice so I felt like posting this here to get the other half of the nations opinion on this.

Over here in PA we pretty lax laws on firearms compared to a lot of other states and we have a lot more of the older guns here as well. We have a ton of little ma and pop stores all over the place and hunting is huge here, especially in western PA, our kids get off from school the first day of Buck.

Im 30 yrs old, my whole family has always collected guns and we have quit a few. Im talking about 4 42 gun safes full. We appreciate quality, and I was taught the value of older guns and their collectability.

I set up at guns shows every now and then to sell a few here and there if I need money for something else. I recently set up at a show and I had quality guns on my table at prices matching gun broker, scopes matching or even cheaper than ebay, and I did not sell 1 thing. Literally not one thing.

I had a franchi 2 barrel set, new CZ 20ga, weatherby lazermark, 2 citori 20ga, a new model Winchester 71, 2 pre 64 models 70's, a few Leupold and zeiss scopes as well.

I wasnt the only one who didnt sell anything either. a lot of the guys stated they wouldnt setup at a show again, its too costly. $50 for each table, travel, gas, time, ect. Basically, us vendors are losing money and paying for a gun show to not even make back the costs.

My point is, where is the hobby going? I sat across from a vendor who had 2 customers filling out forms all day each day. Literally, non stop they were selling these cheap rifles and handguns. Im talking about Savages, Hi points, cheap no name handguns and rifles. Is that really where our hobby is going?

I talked to one guy at the show, same age as me. He stated why would he buy a $900 model 70 when he can get a $400 savage or remington that does the same thing. I dawned on me that no one really cares about collecting or quality anymore. especially since everyones pocket books have gotten titer.

I'll address this directly because its common to other hobby/collecting groups as well.

Gun Broker is a commercial transaction on a large scale with a large audience. A gun show is neither.

Gun Broker is the Comic-Con of guns. Sell your rare fancy stuff at Comic-con you might get full price. Mind you your booth with cost you $1800-10,000. That's full pro, rare and difficult to find buyers looking for expensive items they want to hand inspect.

A gun show with $50 tables is the backyard wrestling compared to the WWF. Its kinda like the same thing but it's dirty and shady. You might find something good but you're taking a risk because the people selling are gone in a couple hours, buyer beware.

You don't get top dollar and top buyers at a $50 table. You certainly don't get full price. Think 50% off. You're not a pro, you won't be there to back up the transaction tomorrow. Why would anyone pay pro dollars?

[The War Wagon]

Keep in mind, PA gun shows are WORLD-RENOWNED for FUDD... and our gunshops aren't much better...

Hang out at the PA/OH/WV study group at M4C, if you want the inside scoop on the "more aware" amongst local firearms owners. For that matter, I know a couple of coin shops in the South Hills, where you could meet some VERY enlightened folks.

And how's that Corvette of yours coming along?

[five.five-six]

Hobby

Someone has been spending too much time on Huffington post methinks.

Careful, that site will rot your brain.

[Neanderthal]

Ammo became so expensive and ranges so few that it is dying off. There may still be a lot of owners , but shooters are dwindling.

[NOTABIKER]

I mostly shoot C&R rifles for fun. I do not hunt so i do not need a 2,000 dollar rifle and custom bullets to have fun. i bought 2 savage rifles and enjoy them. If i was a hunter i probably would step up to more expensive equipment. But for under 500 dollars ruger and savage rifles have come a long way in accuracy.

[Leagle8]

I think you are smart to move your sales online. That is the future. Low overhead, instant communication, and wide audience.
I travel for a living and also noticed that not only gun shows are dying out but smaller gun shops. Guns are such a low profit margin item, I'm surprised that retail shops still want to carry them.
Also, if you notice the subforums here, you'll see where the demand and interest reside just by post count. It's in all the modern stuff.
Good luck, man.

The main reason gun shops carry guns is that is what brings the customers inside the store. Yes, selling guns hasn't been that profitable for a long time. If it is a new gun, its price shopped to death on the internet already and if it is a used gun...same thing only more so...just look at all the price differences in, say, a used Glock 23. The profit margin is in the accessories, shooting gear, gun cases, and everything from cleaning kits to holsters etc are what makes the money, but you have to have the guns to bring people in.

[Ubermcoupe]

Hobby, sport, enumerated right, ... whatever you want to call it - that’s a different thread.

OP, if you didn’t sell anything, im sorry to say your prices were too high for that pool of buyers.

As far as the “hobby” it’s still alive and kicking.