Any class 3's that transfer AOW's

[ke6guj]

Yah, you can Form 1 your own at 18, the hard part is getting the base firearm at 18. Since an AOW can't be built on a rifle or shotgun, you either have to completely build your own from scratch since you can't buy a PGO shotgun or pistol until 21. Or have it intrafamilial transfered or something.

[Blue]

So what's the deal with the trust? I bet if I did some searching I'd find the info...I fondled m24's mini 870 today and it was freaking sweet.

[freakshow10mm]

Yah, you can Form 1 your own at 18, the hard part is getting the base firearm at 18. Since an AOW can't be built on a rifle or shotgun, you either have to completely build your own from scratch since you can't buy a PGO shotgun or pistol until 21. Or have it intrafamilial transfered or something.

Yes you can build an AOW out of a shotgun with a factory pistol grip. Can you guys do a PPT for a shotgun of that type at 18yo?

[ke6guj]

So what's the deal with the trust? I bet if I did some searching I'd find the info...I fondled m24's mini 870 today and it was freaking sweet.

basically a trust is a legal entity that can own NFA firearms. The reason to go with a trust is that as a legal entity, it does not need to have a CLEO sign-off (difficult to impossible to get) or fingerprints/photos submitted.

Man, M24 needs to post up some pics of these new AOWs I keep hearing about. How mini is mini? 14" barrel or significantly shorter with a folding grip?

[Blue]

basically a trust is a legal entity that can own NFA firearms. The reason to go with a trust is that as a legal entity, it does not need to have a CLEO sign-off (difficult to impossible to get) or fingerprints/photos submitted.

Man, M24 needs to post up some pics of these new AOWs I keep hearing about. How mini is mini? 14" barrel or significantly shorter with a folding grip?

Who do I talk to about setting up a trust? A lawyer? What's it cost?

IIRC the barrel was like 12"? just enough for it to hold 5rds and have the mag tube flush with the barrel

[ke6guj]

Can you guys do a PPT for a shotgun of that type at 18yo?

I think the answer to that is NO. That is because the PPT process goes through an FFL. The PGO shotgun would be transfered into the FFL's books from the seller, and then 10 days later is transfered to the buyer. I think a 4473 has to be processed, and at that point, there is a transfer of a firearm from the FFL to the buyer. And if the firearm is not a rifle or shotgun (which a PGO shotgun is not a federally defined shotgun), then the buyer must be 21 to receive from the dealer.

It would probably have to be received from from a parent or grand-parent in an intra-family transfer.

[Blue]

I think the answer to that is NO. That is because the PPT process goes through an FFL. The PGO shotgun would be transfered into the FFL's books from the seller, and then 10 days later is transfered to the buyer. I think a 4473 has to be processed, and at that point, there is a transfer of a firearm from the FFL to the buyer. And if the firearm is not a rifle or shotgun (which a PGO shotgun is not a federally defined shotgun), then the buyer must be 21 to receive from the dealer.

It would probably have to be received from from a parent or grand-parent in an intra-family transfer.

Cant you buy a PGO shotgun and DROS it at your dealer of choice and then bring it to the 07 and have them cut it down and do the tax stamp on it?

[ke6guj]

Who do I talk to about setting up a trust? A lawyer? What's it cost?

It can and has been done with Quicken Willmaker, but for an NFA-specific trust with some extra trust language to help your successor trustee after your death, talk to Oaklander, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=109642

IIRC the barrel was like 12"? just enough for it to hold 5rds and have the mag tube flush with the barrel

Oh OK, I've seen that. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=97016 . I thought you were talking about John having made something really short like a Super Shorty.

Cant you buy a PGO shotgun and DROS it at your dealer of choice and then bring it to the 07 and have them cut it down and do the tax stamp on it?

yes, but Freak and I were talking about 18-20 year olds, they can't buy a PGO shotgun at the dealer. The age requirement for all firearm transfers from a dealer is 21 year old except for rifles and shotguns (a PGO shotgun is not a "shotgun, merely a "firearm") which have an exemption from the 21 year old requirement.

But once you have the PGO shotgun, you can add it to your trust, and the trust can send it to an 07/02 like M24 and have it AOW'ed and then sent back to you on a $5 Form 4 as a repair. Now, that brings up an interesting question. Could a 18-20 year old that had a PGO shotgun legally sent it to an 07/02 for repair into an AOW and have it sent back on a Form 4. I dunno the answer, but if a trust is involved, I don't even think that question even applies.

[freakshow10mm]

Now, that brings up an interesting question. Could a 18-20 year old that had a PGO shotgun legally sent it to an 07/02 for repair into an AOW and have it sent back on a Form 4. I dunno the answer, but if a trust is involved, I don't even think that question even applies.

No, because they can't get it transferred from a dealer or manufacturer (who can also engage in dealing) until they are 21yo. You can only Form 1 an NFA item (can, SBW, AOW, DD) if you are 18-20. Anything on a Form 4 must be 21yo.

For the trust stuff, check with a lawyer. That's out of my element.

[ke6guj]

No, because they can't get it transferred from a dealer or manufacturer (who can also engage in dealing) until they are 21yo. You can only Form 1 an NFA item (can, SBW, AOW, DD) if you are 18-20. Anything on a Form 4 must be 21yo.

Normally, I'd agree with you that anything on a Form 4 must be 21yo.

However, if a person sends a pre-owned firearm to that 07/02 and it is converted into a Title II firearm, it can be returned to the owner with a Form 4, even if the 07/02 is in another state from the owner, no instate dealer needed. That is because the ATF views it as a repair of an owner-supplied firearm, and that ownership never changes.

Another example would be if I sent a regular handgun in for repair to the manufacturer and I was under 21, could the manufacturer send it back to me? Or does it work out that that 18-20yo. could legally own the handgun, but could not have it repaired?

[technique]

So what's the deal with the trust? I bet if I did some searching I'd find the info...I fondled m24's mini 870 today and it was freaking sweet.

Isn't it? I want it!

[freakshow10mm]

However, if a person sends a pre-owned firearm to that 07/02 and it is converted into a Title II firearm, it can be returned to the owner with a Form 4, even if the 07/02 is in another state from the owner, no instate dealer needed. That is because the ATF views it as a repair of an owner-supplied firearm, and that ownership never changes.

Oh, you're saying you send your gun to an 02 SOT who F4s the gun back to you. I get it now. Yes, I think that would fly. I misread that above. Sorry.

[m24armorer]

Forgot to show you the 6.5" Mossberg or the 12" side by side Auto Burglar.

[Solidsnake87]

So, what kinda stuff consists of an AOW???? I've heard the term a lot but have no clue what kind of firearms they entail.

[freakshow10mm]

Smoothbore pistols, short shotguns with a pistol grip that never had a shoulder stock attached, cane guns, pen guns, cell phone guns, flashlight guns. Basically any concealable firearm that is covert and not readily apparent that it is a firearm.