PPT questions - when do I pay whom?

[Decoligny]

Never thought of doing that sandseeker. Good idea and thanks for the tip.

OP, if you were buying from me, here's how the process would go:
1) we'd agree on the price before meeting. I don't dicker.

2) I would arrive at the FFL with the firearm, and let the counter folks know I was there to sell a firearm to a private party. Sometimes they ask to inspect the gun to make sure its safe, sometimes they ask to hold the gun behind the counter until the buyer arrives. Sometimes they don't care.

3) You arrive, and you are given all the time you want to inspect the firearm.

4) You like what you see, and I then produce a Bill of Sale/Receipt that you *must* sign before any other paperwork is started. This makes it clear we've agreed to the terms, it makes it clear what your responsibilities are, and what mine are not. This is my proof you've received everything we've agreed on.

4a) This is very important. On my BoS, I outline who is responsible should your background check fail and/or any private or gov agency delay your picking up of the firearm. Basically, once this doc is signed by us both, I no longer "own" the gun; should the FFL contact me and tell me to come pick it up because you didn't/can't, I will tell them it is no longer mine, and to please surrender it to the proper authorities. No refunds for any reason!

4b) This is even more important. Buyer should insist that part of the contactual agreement is legal ownership of the firearm by the seller. Should the gun turn out to be a stolen firearm, all costs incurred for the transfer, and the full purchase price are to be returned to the Buyer.

5) You then hand over that signed BoS, the cash, I count it, and then sign the second copy of the BoS for you to keep for your records. This is your proof you've paid in full.

6) We then start the paperwork with the FFL. My side is usually done in a few minutes, we shake hands and part ways.

7) Your side is usually done in 15-20 minutes, after which you pay the FFL their fees. They then keep the firearm for 10 days and you come back to pick it up after.

YMMV.

See addendum in bold above.

[Press Check]

This isn't complicated.

1. You agree to buy my Glock.
2. We decide to meet at OC Armory, because Turners Blows.
3. We already have each other's cell number. You text me that you're
In the parking lot.
4. Exiting our cars, we shake hands and walk to my Trunk.
5. I open the trunk, you fondle and inspect the Glock. Below the line of sight of others.
6. You like it.
7. You hand over the CASH to me.
8. I lift the weapon out of the trunk and we walk into OC Armory.
9. I place the Glock box on the corner counter; Mike inspects it to make sure it's unloaded.
10. We both hand over our papers. You, your CDL and Car Registration, and HSC card. Me, my DL only. We fill out papers. We thumb print.
They make copies, they ask both of us questions.
11. Done deal, you pay $35 bucks.
12. Go home. Come back in 10 as pointed out in your Receipt by Mike
13. Total time 14 minutes. You take a bad cell photo of Glock to post on Cal Guns.
14. The pilgrims over at Turners are still looking at their pulled number and realize 14 people are ahead of them.
15. You post a positive itrader rating, I do the same for you.

PERFECT.

Unfortunately, I've found that buyers, or folks not familiar with proper etiquette, are insisting on inspecting the firearm inside the store. Not only that, but I've found myself being paid after the initial paperwork has been started recently.

At RifleGear, I had a buyer ask the guy at the counter to inspect the 1911 before paying me. The guy at the counter shrugged his shoulders, and gave the douche-nozzle buyer a WTF look.

How many times have I had a buyer fumbling over their paperwork, asking what was acceptable forms of proof of address, and likewise nonsense.

I've sold firearms at OC Armory, RifleGear, Martin Retting, Turners, EBR Works, Oaktree, Gun World, Ammo Bros, and a few others, and the ONLY place that it wasn't entirely appropriate to do a quick inspection outside was a EBR Works (private), and Gun World (super public view).

Anytime I have been the buyer, I inspected the firearm outside, gave the nod of approval, paid the seller, took possession of the firearm, and walked inside the store armed with registration, a matching ID, and a HSE card in good standing.

[Mitch]

At RifleGear, I had a buyer ask the guy at the counter to inspect the 1911 before paying me. The guy at the counter shrugged his shoulders, and gave the douche-nozzle buyer a WTF look.

On the other hand, RifleGear don't seem to care if you inspect the firearm at their counter. I can't imagine why anyone would. It's a gun store, after all.

[EatsEverything]

Where inspection is concerned, is it within etiquette to strip the firearm or ask the seller to strip it so that the internals can be reviewed? That just sounds like a messy thing to attempt to do out of sight in the trunk of a car.

[EatsEverything]

4b) This is even more important. Buyer should insist that part of the contactual agreement is legal ownership of the firearm by the seller. Should the gun turn out to be a stolen firearm, all costs incurred for the transfer, and the full purchase price are to be returned to the Buyer.

As the Buyer, why wouldn't you do what sandseeker4life suggested early in the thread to confirm for yourself that the gun is clean. It'd be a lot easier to back out of the deal before money changes hands. After the fact, you could be fighting a long time and more than the gun is worth to try to recover your money.

[BigJ]

Where inspection is concerned, is it within etiquette to strip the firearm or ask the seller to strip it so that the internals can be reviewed? That just sounds like a messy thing to attempt to do out of sight in the trunk of a car.

I can't speak for the parking lot setup; again I just ask the counter folks if we can take a corner for a few minutes, and they're glad to oblige.

When it comes to taking down/stripping a firearm for inspection, I'm glad to do so if the buyer requests it. I'm a little leery of letting them do it as they're almost certainly not nearly as familiar with the manual of arms as I am, and if something is going to break, I'd rather be the guy to break it. The buyer always appreciates that in the end.

[Mitch]

Where inspection is concerned, is it within etiquette to strip the firearm or ask the seller to strip it so that the internals can be reviewed? That just sounds like a messy thing to attempt to do out of sight in the trunk of a car.

And at a gun counter as well.

Stripping a pistol quickly should be no big deal, but if you want to strip a rifle I guess you just have to meet up at someone's house before heading to the gun store.

[Joe]

Sure, it was a store promotion, and I didn't expect them to honor the sign they had out... but the sign did say (in big red letters) ANY Sig

You realize how ridiculous that sounds right? You did buy a sig, just not from them. You bought it from a person. They also wouldn't give you the deal if you bought "any sig" at a store down the street. "Any sig" refers to any model sig, the sign didn't say "acquire a sig by any means and we'll give you a discounted laser."

You kinda sound like one of those obnoxious people always trying to pull a scam or schmooze your way into a deal.

[BigJ]

And at a gun counter as well.

Stripping a pistol quickly should be no big deal, but if you want to strip a rifle I guess you just have to meet up at someone's house before heading to the gun store.

Not necessarily. I've never been asked to detail strip, but dropping a stock from a barreled receiver, or pulling a bolt is typically a 10 second procedure (most of my experience is with C&R stuffs, FWIW.)

In any event, I wouldn't be willing to meet someone I didn't know at my house. Just seems like a bad idea in general. Meeting at the range before hitting the FFL though... I've done that before with good success.

[Condorguns]

And, since I'm on a rant, the outdoor gear supplier in Stockton had a sign on the counter yesterday as I was breaking out my new PPT P220 Sig that said

Buy ANY Sig and get a rail mount laser for only $39.99

So I ask for a $39.99 laser because My Sig qualifies as ANY Sig

and they removed the sign

I'm confused as to why they would remove the sign. You did not buy a Sig from them, why would they remove the sign?

[CSACANNONEER]

PERFECT.

Unfortunately, I've found that buyers, or folks not familiar with proper etiquette, are insisting on inspecting the firearm inside the store. Not only that, but I've found myself being paid after the initial paperwork has been started recently.

Proper etiquette would be to NOT MEET anyone inside a store until the deal is sealed. You are as responsible for this as the other party. I've found myself being paid for PPTs 3 months after the gun has been DROSed, so what? That was part of the deal. If you start paperwork without already being paid, it's on you.

I have a great relationship with one FFL and he doesn't have any issues with me meeting someone inside his store to inspect a gun prior to deciding if I want to buy it or not. Nor does he have any issues with exchanging funds inside the store. But, unless I know the shop, I don't even think of doing that. Some FFLs have real issues with doing half of a private transaction in their shop but, at the same time, they get involved in the other half of the transaction so, there is no legal reason that money can't be exchanged inside the store although, some FFLs tell me there is.

[SammieT]

4) You like what you see, and I then produce a Bill of Sale/Receipt that you *must* sign before any other paperwork is started. This makes it clear we've agreed to the terms, it makes it clear what your responsibilities are, and what mine are not. This is my proof you've received everything we've agreed on.
4a) This is very important. On my BoS, I outline who is responsible should your background check fail and/or any private or gov agency delay your picking up of the firearm. Basically, once this doc is signed by us both, I no longer "own" the gun; should the FFL contact me and tell me to come pick it up because you didn't/can't, I will tell them it is no longer mine, and to please surrender it to the proper authorities. No refunds for any reason!

Can you send me a copy of your BoS haha

[Press Check]

Proper etiquette would be to NOT MEET anyone inside a store until the deal is sealed. You are as responsible for this as the other party. I've found myself being paid for PPTs 3 months after the gun has been DROSed, so what? That was part of the deal. If you start paperwork without already being paid, it's on you.

I have a great relationship with one FFL and he doesn't have any issues with me meeting someone inside his store to inspect a gun prior to deciding if I want to buy it or not. Nor does he have any issues with exchanging funds inside the store. But, unless I know the shop, I don't even think of doing that. Some FFLs have real issues with doing half of a private transaction in their shop but, at the same time, they get involved in the other half of the transaction so, there is no legal reason that money can't be exchanged inside the store although, some FFLs tell me there is.

Great that you have that type of relationship with the FFL, but if you are standing at the counter, inspecting a firearm, and exchanging funds directly in front of an employee who may or may not be observing the transaction, it could be construed as the FFL facilitating that transaction, and in that case, as mandated by the California Board of Equalization, tax would need to be collected.

Has that happened, I have no idea, but I would imagine that being one of a few reasons why most FFL's do not want that taking place at their counters. I would imagine that being the case in stores where there is heavy traffic, and prying eyes. Regardless of the reason, inspecting and exchanging funds outside is the proper way.

As I always say, there is plenty of time to fondle the gun after the gun has been cleared and deemed safe at the counter.

[CSACANNONEER]

Great that you have that type of relationship with the FFL, but if you are standing at the counter, inspecting a firearm, and exchanging funds directly in front of an employee who may or may not be observing the transaction, it could be construed as the FFL facilitating that transaction, and in that case, as mandated by the California Board of Equalization, tax would need to be collected.

Has that happened, I have no idea, but I would imagine that being one of a few reasons why most FFL's do not want that taking place at their counters. I would imagine that being the case in stores where there is heavy traffic, and prying eyes. Regardless of the reason, inspecting and exchanging funds outside is the proper way.

As I always say, there is plenty of time to fondle the gun after the gun has been cleared and deemed safe at the counter.

Uh, by law the FFL has to help facilitate the transaction. That's why both parties are there in the first place. Half of the transaction actually goes through the FFL.

I would not inspect or have a firearm inspected inside a shop or exchange money inside a shop unless I had prior permission. It's just not proper etiquette. But, that's because some FFLs have their head up their azz and don't realize that they are part of the transaction already.

[Press Check]

Uh, by law the FFL has to help facilitate the transaction. That's why both parties are there in the first place. Half of the transaction actually goes through the FFL.

Uh, the FFL is there to do the paperwork. Nothing more. There's a difference.

Maybe you should ask one of the FFL's here about facilitating a transaction, or appearing to facilitate a transaction, and what that means to the Board of Equalization.