FBI done with .40?

[retiredAFcop]

According to this article, the FBI has found that the .40 brings more recoil and doesn't provide better performance than the 9mm.

Let's see if this change actually takes place.

http://prepperchimp.com/2014/07/26/fbi-going-back-to-9mm-pistols/

[Eldraque]

FBI done with .40?

Different strokes for different folks. I say let officers carry whatever they want. As for the claim that .40 "increases wear and tear" i call bogus on that

[71MUSTY]

Awesome, that means a lot of used 40 cal pistols hitting the market. Too bad most will never make it to CA.

[Bangzoom]

So when will they start selling all those Billions and Billions of rounds?

[mt417]

My friends Ruger 9mm was snappy but accurate, my HK USP 40 would recoil to various side angles and I really didnt even want to bother getting used to it. my Springfield 1911 trp operator shoots straight back and up. 45 is heavy, louder, more recoil, but I am much more effective with it than I am with a 9mm.

[tnlrat37]

Maybe they'll go with .380

[Ronin2]

Twenty four years ago, when the .40 S&W was launched, given the bullet design / technology of the time, there were some significant differences in the ballistic and terminal performance between the .40 S&W and the 9 mm.

Modern bullet design has closed that gap SUBSTANCIALLY in my opinion. Accordingly, I sold all but one of my .40 S&W pistols and all my .40 training ammunition supply last year during the peak of latest panic. Sold all my Glock .40's for way more than I paid for them. Kept my Walther P99 in .40 S&W.

There is nothing the .40 S&W does, depending on what characteristics are most important to you, that the .45 ACP or the 9 mm can't do better in my opinion.

Of course watch the just now retuning 9 mm supplies dry up at the factory as all the LE agencies around the country do what they always do and copy the Feds and generate huge 9 mm demand. Conversely as mentioned above... lots of Gov. surplus guns and ammo to dispose of... maybe making .40 cheaper than 9mm on the shelf.

[dustoff31]

Different strokes for different folks. I say let officers carry whatever they want. As for the claim that .40 "increases wear and tear" i call bogus on that

In that the .40 and 9mm operate at +/- the same pressures, I'd have to agree.

[retiredAFcop]

I've never really been a fan of the .40, since it was supposedly developed as a compromise between the 9mm and 10mm when the FBI wanted a lighter 10mm loading.
This meant that the standard .40 never did what a real 10mm load could do in terms of ballistics and terminal performance, while not doing much better than a 9mm load could do.
It really seemed to come down to "new toys for Fed boys", and then other LEAs followed suit, because few people want their neighbors to have newer and supposedly better gear - no matter how good or reliable the old gear was.

[echoThreeOneSix]

No preference here, I'm switching to 9mm from .40 for no particular reason just because I want to.

[Gannicus]

Twenty four years ago, when the .40 S&W was launched, given the bullet design / technology of the time, there were some significant differences in the ballistic and terminal performance between the .40 S&W and the 9 mm.

Modern bullet design has closed that gap SUBSTANCIALLY in my opinion. Accordingly, I sold all but one of my .40 S&W pistols and all my .40 training ammunition supply last year during the peak of latest panic. Sold all my Glock .40's for way more than I paid for them. Kept my Walther P99 in .40 S&W.

There is nothing the .40 S&W does, depending on what characteristics are most important to you, that the .45 ACP or the 9 mm can't do better in my opinion.

Of course watch the just now retuning 9 mm supplies dry up at the factory as all the LE agencies around the country do what they always do and copy the Feds and generate huge 9 mm demand. Conversely as mentioned above... lots of Gov. surplus guns and ammo to dispose of... maybe making .40 cheaper than 9mm on the shelf.

So I guess in those years, the .40 has been stuck in a time capsule.

The .40 is bigger and heavier resulting in more ft lbs of energy AND benefits from "modern bullet design." If you can't handle the "snappy" recoil of the .40 than that's a different story. It's never been a problem for me. Considering we live in a restrictive state with mag cap limits, the other advantage of 9mm is null. For those of us who can handle the .40, 10 rounds of it in 180gr is better than 10 rounds of 9mm in 147gr +p+ (which negates the recoil aspect of the argument, BTW) whether it's FMJ or your choice of hollow points.

Your opinion that the .45 and, more importantly, the 9mm is better isn't based on logic.

If you take into account why the .40 was developed and why the FBI went with the .40 in the first place as well as take into account the advancements in bullet design since the 80's, then the switch to 9mm makes sense. But to ignore the performance and nullify the same advancements for the .40 is nonsensical.

[hermosabeach]

The 1986 shoot out changed a lot of things with firearms.
Better bullets
Different calibers.


At the end of the day, the stop rate for 9mm, .40 and .45 are almost the same.

It is a hand gun in 9mm, 10mm or 11mm



They all stink for a solid stop.




And yes, the .40 will wear things out faster than 9mm




As most departments will never shoot a pistol enough to wear it out, it is a bit irrelevant.

[Quiet]

JHP bullet design has vastly improved since 1986.

[Quiet]

FBI RFP Semi-auto pistols

This notice is issued solely for informational and planning purposes only.

The following types of pistols, chambered to fire a 9mm Luger cartridge, may be requested for testing and evaluation purposes under a future solicitation:

Class One Pistol: barrel length between 3.75" and 4.25"; with a minimum magazine capacity of 13 rounds.

Class Two Pistol: barrel length between 4.5" and 5.5"; with a minimum magazine capacity of 15 rounds.

Class One Training Pistol (Red Handle): deactivated with full articulation, red receiver and slide, night sights.

Class One "Man Marking" (a.k.a., "Simunitions") pistol: blue slide or slide with blue inserts.


Seems like this RFP is tailored for 9x19mm Glock pistols.
Class One = Glock 19
Class Two = Glock 17/34
Class One Training Pistol = Glock 19P
Class One "man marking" pistol = Glock 19T

[joefrank64k]

So I guess in those years, the .40 has been stuck in a time capsule.

The .40 is bigger and heavier resulting in more ft lbs of energy AND benefits from "modern bullet design." If you can't handle the "snappy" recoil of the .40 than that's a different story. It's never been a problem for me. Considering we live in a restrictive state with mag cap limits, the other advantage of 9mm is null. For those of us who can handle the .40, 10 rounds of it in 180gr is better than 10 rounds of 9mm in 147gr +p+ (which negates the recoil aspect of the argument, BTW) whether it's FMJ or your choice of hollow points.

Your opinion that the .45 and, more importantly, the 9mm is better isn't based on logic.

If you take into account why the .40 was developed and why the FBI went with the .40 in the first place as well as take into account the advancements in bullet design since the 80's, then the switch to 9mm makes sense. But to ignore the performance and nullify the same advancements for the .40 is nonsensical.

Bingo!!! ALL typical defensive calibers have been helped by advancements in bullet design, not just 9mm.