Firearms Insurance claims?

[Mithrandir13]

Can folks who have one of the various coverages offered to firearms owners please comment on the quality of service....

Preferably I hope anyone who actually was involved in a SD situation could comment on the willingness of the "Insurance" company to actually pony-up the funds for a suitable defense....

thanks again!

[Baboosh]

Do they have specific firearm insurance or just HOI? I know my HOI doesn't cover my firearms so I have a specific policy just for them.

[dca965]

Do they have specific firearm insurance or just HOI? I know my HOI doesn't cover my firearms so I have a specific policy just for them.

I think he is referring to CCW/Self-defense Firearms insurance. If I am correct, there are threads on CGN which cover this topic.

[Mithrandir13]

there are threads that cover the subject... but I have not found any posts from folks who actually needed/used the service....

That is specifically who I am reaching out to....
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[lorax3]

I've dealt with insurance companies regarding loss of firearms in a fire. Some insurance companies have coverage under your personal property limits, some don't. Check your policy, and your always know your policy limits.

Like most insurance claims they will want to pay you actual cash value vs. replacement cash value. Keep a record of all the firearms you own, keep photos, keep documents of upgrades that could increase their value. Go through your safe with a video camera, put everything on a CD or on a trusted server off-site. These are pretty general rules for all personal property items of value.

I had to identify rifles, shotguns, and handguns that were burned in the 2007 San Diego Wildfire, and let me tell you there was not much left to identify. In major insurance claims your documentation goes further than you can imagine in getting the most payout for firearms and other personal property items of value.

Everyone please remember the NRA offers $2,500 of firearms coverage FREE to all members, but you need to sign up. http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/armscareplus.htm

[mrrsquared79]

Firearms are covered under personal property on a homeowners/condo/renters insurance policy unless they are specifically excluded. The caveat is firearms/jewelry/cash/money are THE most stolen items thus if a loss is sustained from via a theft, most policies have a sub limit for firearms.

That being said, if you are relying on a homeowners/condo/renters insurance policy to cover your firearms, be wise about it and ask your agent/broker/insurance company specifically what the coverage is for firearms and if there are any sublimits for certain types of losses(perils: fire/theft/etc.).

As far as liability, most will not cover you should you be found to have committed a crime with the firearms. If no crime was committed, you very well may have coverage for your defense.

In summation, I would make sure you have a NRA membership as insurance is automatically included to all NRA members. Next would be to get a stand alone policy from Lockton and ask about coverage for self defense and the defense of any situation that may arise from self defense involving the use of a firearm.

[dca965]

Again, I think the OP was inquiring about CCW/self defense/personal liability insurance, as opposed to theft, etc.

[mrrsquared79]

Again, I think the OP was inquiring about CCW/self defense/personal liability insurance, as opposed to theft, etc.

I understood however, this is a great opportunity to provide some education for those of us who are not insurance savvy. CGN member 'therealnickb' is also a good resource as well for insurance matters. Perhaps he will chime in also.

As far as self defense being covered by homeowners/condo/rental insurance, this is touchy subject for most insurance companies.

I can quote you the exact verbiage from the homeowners/condo/renters policies for insurance company I work for:

Part II - Liability Coverages

WHAT LOSSES ARE COVERED - COVERAGE D

1. We will pay damages which any insured is legally liable to pay because of:
a.bodily injury or property damage caused by an occurence to which this coverage applies.
b. personal injury to which this coverage applies.
Damages do not include criminal fines, penalties, or restitution orders.

2. We will defend any suit claiming damages for bodily injury, property damage or personal injury to which this coverage applies. We will defend suit even if the allegations are groundless, false or fraudulent. Defense lawyers will be hired by us. If any insured retains a lawyer for any claim, whether or not covered under this coverage, we will not pay the fees and cost charged by that lawyer. Our duty to defend ends when the amount we pay for damages resulting from one occcurrence equals our limit of liability. We have no duty to defend any insured in any criminal action or proceeding in which the recovery of a fine, penalty or restitution is sought.

3. We may settle any claim or suit as we think appropriate.

There is a lot of information I am not typing out as it is very dry boring verbose and is written in legalese...

Me being in the insurance industry as an employee of an insurance company, I would still seek out a policy specifically written to cover the exposure for self defense and/or use of a firearm!!

Lockton is the one that comes to mind off the top of my head as another poster has mentioned.

They can be pricey but then again what is your piece of mind worth knowing you won't be homeless should you find yourself in a situation where you must do whatever you must to defend your life or the life of loved ones?

YMMV

[masalaticar]

I think the OP was inquiring about CCW/self defense/personal liability insurance, as opposed to theft, etc.

[BumBum]

there are threads that cover the subject... but I have not found any posts from folks who actually needed/used the service....

That is specifically who I am reaching out to....
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Not to be a total cynic, but I think you are going to have a tough time finding anyone. In most cases of legitimate self defense, the DA is going to be smart enough not to bring charges against the victim. Even if a DA is over-zealous, know that DAs are ultimately graded on their wins versus losses - the powers that be do not look kindly on wasted resources regardless of their political pursuits. Any assistant/deputy DA with any ambition whatsoever is not going to prosecute a loser of a case.

On the other hand, you have cases where self defense is claimed but may not be legitimate. Say for example, you shoot someone in the back as they are leaving your residence, and the DA charges you. Understand that insurance isn't going to pick up the defense in every single case. Imagine an even crazier scenario, perhaps where you break into someone else's home and shoot them unprovoked. The perpetrator at this point has nothing to lose by claiming self defense, and does so. Would insurance pick up that defense? Absolutely not.

My point here is that insurance is going to evaluate each case individually. Understand too, that coupled with the fact that most self defense scenarios do not end up with the victim being charged, there are very likely few cases that end up as insurance claims. And those few that have made such claims are likely not here on Calguns to tell their story because they're busy serving prison sentences.

ETA - I think some carriers will pony up only AFTER you successfully defend the case and they find it is the result of a successful claim of self defense. You need to read the fine print of the policy to be sure what is and isn't covered and how. Of course, this is little comfort if you can't front the thousands of dollars necessary to mount such a defense.

[dca965]

Not to be a total cynic, but I think you are going to have a tough time finding anyone. In most cases of legitimate self defense, the DA is going to be smart enough not to bring charges against the victim. Even if a DA is over-zealous, know that DAs are ultimately graded on their wins versus losses - the powers that be do not look kindly on wasted resources regardless of their political pursuits. Any assistant/deputy DA with any ambition whatsoever is not going to prosecute a loser of a case.

On the other hand, you have cases where self defense is claimed but may not be legitimate. Say for example, you shoot someone in the back as they are leaving your residence, and the DA charges you. Understand that insurance isn't going to pick up the defense in every single case. Imagine an even crazier scenario, perhaps where you break into someone else's home and shoot them unprovoked. The perpetrator at this point has nothing to lose by claiming self defense, and does so. Would insurance pick up that defense? Absolutely not.

My point here is that insurance is going to evaluate each case individually. Understand too, that coupled with the fact that most self defense scenarios do not end up with the victim being charged, there are very likely few cases that end up as insurance claims. And those few that have made such claims are likely not here on Calguns to tell their story because they're busy serving prison sentences.

ETA - I think some carriers will pony up only AFTER you successfully defend the case and they find it is the result of a successful claim of self defense. You need to read the fine print of the policy to be sure what is and isn't covered and how. Of course, this is little comfort if you can't front the thousands of dollars necessary to mount such a defense.

While good advice here, I think it important to also mention the Civil aspects after the incident. In my mind, the family of the scumbag you may be forced to shoot/kill will most likely find an ambulance chaser to sue you civilly and come after your House, Assets, Autos, Private Property, etc. But I am not an insurance professional like other members who have posted good information above.

[Mithrandir13]

The reason I ask, is I consider every "Insurance" company to be slithering slime of the lowest order.... I anticipate such companies to use every means possible to actually NOT pay a claim....they are always eager to collect your premium/membership payments... yet find some small print detail that excuses them from actually paying for any attorney fees, expert witnesses etc.

I hoped that there might be some members here, or a victim known to a member who can relate how genuinely supportive one of these membership/policies really was.....

but I always welcome tangential info to further enlighten....

thanks again!!
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While good advice here, I think it important to also mention the Civil aspects after the incident. In my mind, the family of the scumbag you may be forced to shoot/kill will most likely find an ambulance chaser to sue you civilly and come after your House, Assets, Autos, Private Property, etc. But I am not an insurance professional like other members who have posted good information above.

I have been curious why Tray-future-felon-von Martins parents haven't sued George Zimmerman.... and recently I discovered that if they do file a suit.. and they lose... they must reimburse GZ for his legal defense!! And in light of the fact that GZ won the legal battle... the likely outcome of a civil matter is heavily weighted to GZ's benefit
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[therealnickb]

there are threads that cover the subject... but I have not found any posts from folks who actually needed/used the service....



That is specifically who I am reaching out to....

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The only story I've read from someone meeting your description is from quarterboregunner.

He shot a robber and got sued by the robbers family. The insurance company settled for $5,000 and didn't go to court.

Note this was a commercial insurance policy covering a gun store/range. It's quite possible there was special language in the policy about defensive shootings, but I suspect the insurance company offered the medical pay limits of $5,000 and the dirtbag family took it and ran.

I suspect Settlements are much more common than law suits in cases like this.

No criminal charges filed.

[hornswaggled]

Get an umbrella policy or one of those armed citizens defense league memberships.

Note that insurance policies won't help you against criminal charges. My umbrella says if you commit a crime, you're on your own.

[therealnickb]

The reason I ask, is I consider every "Insurance" company to be slithering slime of the lowest order.... I anticipate such companies to use every means possible to actually NOT pay a claim....they are always eager to collect your premium/membership payments... yet find some small print detail that excuses them from actually paying for any attorney fees, expert witnesses etc.



I hoped that there might be some members here, or a victim known to a member who can relate how genuinely supportive one of these membership/policies really was.....



but I always welcome tangential info to further enlighten....



thanks again!!

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I have been curious why Tray-future-felon-von Martins parents haven't sued George Zimmerman.... and recently I discovered that if they do file a suit.. and they lose... they must reimburse GZ for his legal defense!! And in light of the fact that GZ won the legal battle... the likely outcome of a civil matter is heavily weighted to GZ's benefit

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I believe the much talked about "stand your ground" law proved Zimmerman with near immunity for self defense in a civil case.