Future weapons and 5.56mm

[One Shot, One Dropped]

Why?

It's perfectly humane to kill an animal with an arrow!

I think that, sometimes, it's even more humane because bow hunters tend to wait until they can get extremely close, and most of them will not take a shot unless they are darn sure of getting a lethal hit. Most of them will also practice a lot more than the average rifleman.

P.S. I fixed your punctuation for you Big Muffin.

[bigdave1121]

P.S. I fixed your punctuation for you Big Muffin.

Next tme we're shooting at the range I would hate to 'accidentally' mistake you for a clay pigeon

[live2offroad]

None of these new rounds are effective in FA, further more the weight twice as much, there for you carry less, during the Korean war people ran out of ammo and had to retreat all the time. You are more likely to run out of ammo then shoot someone with 5.56mm and have them just keep running at you.
The lack of stopping power is bad shot placement, if they want to increase stopping power 77SMK is more then enough. There is no reason to switch caliber. A 3 round burst with these new calibers would get you 1 hit the rest would be up and to the right, in 5.56mm you would get 2-3 hits. All the Marines I have talked to coming back all say the same thing everyone I saw get hit was down or crawling on ground hopping they were dead.

Wouldn't the up and right drift be countered with practice and experience? Of course soldiers and operators are hitting better with the 5.56 they have hundreds of hours with that round.

Make no mistake, when the Military moved to the M16 in 5.56 people hated it, and when comparing it to the .308 M14 who would blame them. But with time and practice the AR and the 5.56 has become a icon and a favorite by virtue of experience. (heck you all know this..)

Whatever the new round is, it will have the same growing pains as the 5.56.

-Peter

[M. Sage]

are you serious about the .30 cal not making a bigger whole?

look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL-li...eature=related

That's stretch. The block rebounds back in on itself and the hole gets much smaller... the size of the expanded bullet. I'd be surprised if that bullet expanded past .70 cal. The stretch will result in dead tissue along the wound channel over the next few days, but immediate effects aren't a hell of a lot. A broadhead will put a permanent wound all the way through a deer that's got 2-3" diameter, depending on the head used. Trust me, a good hit with a bow, and an animal isn't going far at all. About the only advantages to a firearm are that if you hit a rib, sometimes it'll transmit shock to an animal's spine, paralyzing it and making it look like it's deader than it is (been there, done that), and for head-shooting which is the only instant way to kill.

I've seen and heard of many deer hit with a broadhead not even realizing it and bleeding out while they stand there wondering what that noise was. Then again, I've seen the same with firearms, but less often.

Hydrodynamic shock has been pretty well proven to be junk science, by the way...

Wouldn't the up and right drift be countered with practice and experience? Of course soldiers and operators are hitting better with the 5.56 they have hundreds of hours with that round.

Make no mistake, when the Military moved to the M16 in 5.56 people hated it, and when comparing it to the .308 M14 who would blame them. But with time and practice the AR and the 5.56 has become a icon and a favorite by virtue of experience. (heck you all know this..)

Whatever the new round is, it will have the same growing pains as the 5.56.

-Peter

Up and right can be overcome with proper form, for the most part. If a muzzle is climbing right, the rifle is shouldered too far from the centerline of the torso.

[1lostinspace]

[QUOTE=M. Sage;1358841]That's stretch. The block rebounds back in on itself and the hole gets much smaller... the size of the expanded bullet. I'd be surprised if that bullet expanded past .70 cal. The stretch will result in dead tissue along the wound channel over the next few days, but immediate effects aren't a hell of a lot. A broadhead will put a permanent wound all the way through a deer that's got 2-3" diameter, depending on the head used. Trust me, a good hit with a bow, and an animal isn't going far at all. About the only advantages to a firearm are that if you hit a rib, sometimes it'll transmit shock to an animal's spine, paralyzing it and making it look like it's deader than it is (been there, done that), and for head-shooting which is the only instant way to kill.

I've seen and heard of many deer hit with a broadhead not even realizing it and bleeding out while they stand there wondering what that noise was. Then again, I've seen the same with firearms, but less often.

Hydrodynamic shock has been pretty well proven to be junk science, by the way...



Up and right can be overcome with proper form, for the most part. If a muzzle is climbing right, the rifle is shouldered too far from the centerline of the torso.[/QUote

Hydrodynamic has been proven junk science lol so explain the killing power of .308 FMJ?

[1lostinspace]

Did you know that Eugene Stoner hated the 5.56 round? He designed the AR-10 to replace the M1 Garand, but politics and a rifle that looked too "space age" made the AR-10 lose to the M14.

Stoner and James Sullivan redesigned the AR-10 to shoot the new tiny 5.56 round the military wanted to adopt because the M14 was uncontrollable by the average soldier when shooting FA.

One of the reasons the M240 (.308 version of the SAW) has a bunch of new configurations for CQB use is because the M4's and SAW's are not effective enough at immediate incapacitation, and soldiers have been modifying M240's on their own to use for room clearing.

I am sorry that is a roomer Stoner helped with the cartridge design. He had made numerous rifles including the Stoner automatic in 5.56mm.

[1lostinspace]

As far as controlling FSC556 is the answer. No matter how much you practice in FA it is hard to control but a 3 round burst known as a Jackhammer is easy to pull off.

[Toolbox X]

I am sorry that is a roomer Stoner helped with the cartridge design. He had made numerous rifles including the Stoner automatic in 5.56mm.

You can tell James Sullivan about this rumor if you want. Don't be surprised if he disagrees with you though, considering he designed the AR15/M16 with Stoner and made a point to tell the interviewer how Stoner did not like the 5.56 cartridge and how it was ironic that he is famous for that cartridge.

Read the interview in SAR.

[1lostinspace]

maybe early on, I think he fell in love with the round as did everyone else.
The first time I saw a 5.56mm round I thought to my self why are we using this little round? Compared to my 30-06 it looked silly. But after shooting it I realized it was accurate,flat shooting,great penetration on metal,fragmenting when hitting soft targets, fast second and 3rd shot, and over all the right choice.
I ll never forget the first time a shot jugs of water it blew it apart leaving frag everywhere, it was kind of scary!!!

[tonelar]

I think your grenada friend mistaken 5.56 for 7.62 round. if he was being shot with an ak round-then he is lucky to have his leg intact.

'Cause you were in Grenada, right? Think again... Velocity=Ferocity

He was shot with an AK. It went in and out. Did they have AKs in 5.56 then? I have no idea at what range he got shot from, but the enemy in that fiasco wasn't shooting 5.56. An AR hit causes more trauma at greater distances than the AK can. Or are you one of those who thinks that the 7.62x39 is a Hi-power round?

[csmintel]

'Cause you were in Grenada, right? Think again... Velocity=Ferocity

He was shot with an AK. It went in and out. Did they have AKs in 5.56 then? I have no idea at what range he got shot from, but the enemy in that fiasco wasn't shooting 5.56. An AR hit causes more trauma at greater distances than the AK can. Or are you one of those who thinks that the 7.62x39 is a Hi-power round?

eat ramen

[tonelar]

I fixed it for you

I eat ramen

credat judeaus gavinus non ego

[pTa]

All he ever whispers is that the 5.56mm lacks stopping power, funny thing is word in the sandbox is that it works just fine and has been doing so almost 50 years now.

I am so tired of people saying that 5.56mm lacks power. Anyone here have any real world experience? If so please share if you feel comfortable doing so.

I watched an episode where Mack talks up the AK bullet like it's more powerful. Please, 7.62 Kalashnikov can barely compete with our hundred year old .30-30.
Don't take him too seriously he's gone hollywood on us. My pop and brother were in SAND WAR 1 and 2. Both swear the 5.56 gets 'er done.

[1lostinspace]

5.56 is so misunderstood even the Russians managed to screw it up!

[pTa]

how do you mean 1lost? the ak74 round?


reremental?
isnt it called cincicinciseiz in Europe