What NOT to do when pulled over

[SVT-40]

Obfuscation.

check...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57612743/n.m-police-fire-on-minivan-filled-with-kids-their-mom-how-it-happened/

Don't like a "layman"'s opinion, then have even more experts:

http://www.taosnews.com/news/article...a4bcf887a.html

And none of those individuals know all the specifics about this case, or if the department has any policy preventing shooting at vehicles......

One case is not like any other.

The officers actions will be judged after ALL the information, and AFTER everyone has been interviewed..

Not based on preliminary reports...

So called "talking heads" are just that, paid to talk... It does not mean their answers or opinions have any bearing on the case at hand...

[SactoDoug]

And none of those individuals know all the specifics about this case, or if the department has any policy preventing shooting at vehicles......

One case is not like any other.

The officers actions will be judged after ALL the information, and AFTER everyone has been interviewed..

Not based on preliminary reports...

So called "talking heads" are just that, paid to talk... It does not mean their answers or opinions have any bearing on the case at hand...

Moving the goal post I see.

Even criminal justice college professors, a former FBI assist director, and a few former police officers is not "expert" enough for you.

What is your stance going to be in the event that Elias Montoya gets disciplined?

[morfeeis]

Moving the goal post I see.

Even criminal justice college professors, a former FBI assist director, and a few former police officers is not "expert" enough for you.

What is your stance going to be in the event that Elias Montoya gets disciplined?

I just cant read his post sometimes, it's down right painful.

[TRICKSTER]

Moving the goal post I see.

Even criminal justice college professors, a former FBI assist director, and a few former police officers is not "expert" enough for you.

What is your stance going to be in the event that Elias Montoya gets disciplined?

Well, since he hasn't taken a position as to whether he was wrong or not, I doubt that he will care either way and neither will I. All most LEO's here care about is that there is a full and honest investigation into the matter.
What you and others seem to miss in these discussions is that most LEOs here aren't invested in defending a specific officer, they are simply relating their actual experience, what the laws and their department policies state, what their department's procedures are and the process of conducting a full and honest investigation. When someone post some off the wall comment and are corrected by a LEO, some people here automatically assume that the LEO is defending someone when the truth is they are simply exposing the off the wall comment. Quite simply, pointing out bad information is not automatically defending anything but the truth.
Basically, if after a full honest investigation, the officer is found to have screwed up and is disciplined, I don't think that you will see any of the LEOs here complaining. Now if after that full and honest investigation, the officer is not found to have violated policy and done nothing wrong, I don't believe that some of the posters here will accept the decision. That is the difference between those waiting for a full investigation and explaining policies and procedures and those having and pushing an agenda.

[SVT-40]

Moving the goal post I see.

Even criminal justice college professors, a former FBI assist director, and a few former police officers is not "expert" enough for you.

What is your stance going to be in the event that Elias Montoya gets disciplined?

The "goal posts" were always in the same position.. You just choose to bring in opinions from "experts" which don't have all the information related to this incident...

I guess no matter how many times you, and others are told that making assumptions based on limited information is foolish does not matter.....You keep at it....

The "goal posts" for this particular incident are set, and the actions of the officers involved will be reviewed based on the totality of the information and circumstance related to this incident alone..Not by Talking heads or internet know it all's.....

Since none of us here have all that information, it's as I said "foolish" to make any assumptions..

I haven't... I just keep pointing out how a decision will be made...

Unfortunately some here start with the assumptions that the officers acted unreasonably. Thats because some here have a personal bias, and cannot start from scratch.

That is the unfortunate thing about these discussions. No matter how many times one tries to point out how foolish it is to base a opinion on preliminary information, some still do just that...


The only "dog" I have in this fight is just to try and point out how the process works related to investigations of officers conduct in this situation, as well as all uses of force....

If you choose to go back and review my posts I still have not commented on whether I personally believe what occurred was "reasonable" or not......

Once the investigation is over, and all the information is reviewed by the relevant authorities, I will be okay with what ever outcome THEY believe is appropriate.


But until then it's silly to make assumptions, and shows real bias when you do....

[GuillermoAntonio]

ALL the other kids should be arrested. You know it's only a matter of time before the rest of the rats come out of the hole...might as well deal with them now.

This is an idiotic comment, you and the female driver of the video should get together, you will get along...

[SVT-40]

I just cant read his post sometimes, it's down right painful.

Why?... Is it because you don't believe in due process???

Or is Due process only reserved to some civilians???

[Sunday]

You are 100% correct and that still doesn't justify the use of deadly force. Watch the video again.

Too many cops shoot first and ask questions later the cops should be hanged for what they did. attempted murder, The woman wasn't armed and was basically being shot in the back.

[sl0re10]

It looks like he's firing at the tire.

But mini vans (along with low end suvs) flip over when you look at them funny. Pretty irresponsible shooting at even a tire IMO.

[SVT-40]

But mini vans (along with low end suvs) flip over when you look at them funny. Pretty irresponsible shooting at even a tire IMO.

So if they were to spike strip the vehicle, would that be "irresponsible" too?

You know the vehicle is operated by a human who decides how fast, and how safely the vehicle will be driven.

It's not like the vehicle makes these decisions...

When is the driver of the vehicle responsible for how the vehicle is operated????

[SVT-40]

Too many cops shoot first and ask questions later the cops should be hanged for what they did. attempted murder, The woman wasn't armed and was basically being shot in the back.

So it's okay to hang (kill) LEO's for trying to stop a vehicle from fleeing in a reckless manner?

Shooting at a tire is not equal to trying to "murder" someone......

[BakoJ]

The female driver/Criminal and her son/Criminal made their choices that resulted in shots fired and her children being terrorized. Had she reacted in a responsible manner, NONE of this would have ever occurred. The officer wasn't escalating the situation, the criminal was. The woman drove away during the stop, where she was being detained, and turned the situation into a felony. Had she kept her mouth shut, signed her ticket and moved on, nothing at all would've happened. Her son wouldn't be in jail. Her drug paraphernalia would not have been discovered and everyone would be safe and happy at home.

Here is the problem. The officer has a duty to protect himself and other citizens. When a criminal is acting in the manner that this woman was, a cop can't let that slide. She was a danger to everyone on the road, especially if she was indeed high. This isn't about officer safety. This is about public safety.

[Maddawg46]

The Mom and one son should be in jail. Sounds like she was drunk or doped up. Now the Cop......he was in the wrong. My opinion from what I saw. I think they have to be in mortal danger like us CCWs to use deadly force. Not sure, but he may be out of a job or minimum get a severe reprimand.

[guns4life]

Too many cops shoot first and ask questions later the cops should be hanged for what they did. attempted murder, The woman wasn't armed and was basically being shot in the back.

She was armed with a 2-ton battering ram.

[SactoDoug]

Montoya was fired.

Who still thinks it was a good idea to shoot at the van?

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/new-mexico-police-officer-in-van-shooting-is-fired/article_af9e0340-a681-5d59-af2d-03996ec954c7.html