Does law Enforcement really need select fire?

[SactoDoug]

They gave a police department a Ma Deuce? Holy crap!

The reason I am shocked is that I am under the false assumption that law enforcement was supposed to do everything in their power to bring criminals into custody alive. They are only supposed to kill in self defense or defense of others.

When are they going to roll down our streets in M1's?

[desrt2]

OK. I'm seeing a little bit of light shed.
Good to know that some agencies - including large metros/counties - are backing off select fire but retaining subs and long guns.
I'll admit that I'm a little bit jealous when I do see new select fire guns and I can't have one.
It's possible that they wouldn't be so obnoxiously expensive if they weren't NFA.
The operational/mechanical difference between an M16 and AR15 is not hundreds of dollars. Maybe not even $100.

[five.five-six]

Same weapons we have.

[KABA556]

They gave a police department a Ma Deuce? Holy crap!

The reason I am shocked is that I am under the false assumption that law enforcement was supposed to do everything in their power to bring criminals into custody alive. They are only supposed to kill in self defense or defense of others.

When are they going to roll down our streets in M1's?

Cleveland Police Department bought two Barrett .50 caliber rifles and then realized that there was nowhere within 100 miles of the city that they could go to safely train and that there was no police facility within city limits where they could train with said rifles. They also said they realized that it wouldn't be safe to deploy them in a built-up area such as Cleveland due to the serious risk of major over-penetration in an urban setting.

They ultimately announced they were going to get rid of the rifles. When I called to make them an offer they said that they were not going to sell them to a "civilian" and that they would be giving them or selling them to a rural police department.

[JMP]

No, they should not have automatic weapons since it will not improve their accuracy. However, they should carry much larger magazines to compensate for their marksmanship skills.

[KABA556]

They gave a police department a Ma Deuce? Holy crap!

The reason I am shocked is that I am under the false assumption that law enforcement was supposed to do everything in their power to bring criminals into custody alive. They are only supposed to kill in self defense or defense of others.

When are they going to roll down our streets in M1's?

Plenty of departments have M2s and even belt-fed 40mm grenade launchers. They are also arming police with drones/UAVs that can fire 40mm grenades.


I do not believe it will be too long before they begin arming police with armored vehicles sporting either a 20mm and 30mm auto-cannon.


In the near future I intend to legally purchase an armored vehicle [something along the lines of a BMP or a BTR] in addition to an M2A1-7 Flamethrower and an M2 Browning or an MG-42. If we're in an arms race we need to keep-up. In my view an M2A1-7 Flamethrower would be a lovely way to greet a tactical entry team.


If the police are arming up with armored vehicles, drones, etc, then we can do something similar as long we work within the law.


I intend to launch a project over the next several years with a remote controlled drone that will stay airborne for several hours and have a range of several miles with recording equipment. The purpose is to fly around town and observe the police at their worst, when they believe nobody is watching. If they are going to fly drones over us and record us, we can return the favor.

[KABA556]

They gave a police department a Ma Deuce? Holy crap!

The reason I am shocked is that I am under the false assumption that law enforcement was supposed to do everything in their power to bring criminals into custody alive. They are only supposed to kill in self defense or defense of others.

When are they going to roll down our streets in M1's?

Hell about five years ago they used a Stryker to oppose a peaceful demonstration, attempting to terrorize the people into fleeing. They brought the Stryker right up alongside the protest, fully armed and ready to go.

[LiferLance]

The only use for full auto, or even burst it to achieve fire superiority as a base of movement. A Marine squad uses full auto/burst to pin an enemy with overwhelming fire while a maneuver element flanks and assaults. Police should never be in a position where achieving fire superiority takes more than a second cop with a gun.
Belt fed machine guns are used for killing lots of people fast, or pinning them to cover while you move up and kill them. There isn't a setting for precise with a 240. If a cop was spraying full mags at someone near me, I'd probably take his rifle and shoot the guy before he cop kills someone with one of the 29 unaired shots per mag.

[jdben92883]

I don't agree with this premise. Everyone should be entitled to standard capacity magazines. The point of questioning whether LE has a justifiable need for FA weapons is because everyone isn't allowed them. If certain groups are going to be restricted, then those that aren't need to prove a valid reason to have them.

I'm sure are limited cases when LE could justify full auto. However, the topic comes up as our civilian police force becomes more militarized. Are they gearing up to counter bad guys or to counter the general population?

OP, until you have been in their shoes, how can you even make a decision? You question is just as bad as why do people need 30 round magazines.

[KABA556]

The only use for full auto, or even burst it to achieve fire superiority as a base of movement. A Marine squad uses full auto/burst to pin an enemy with overwhelming fire while a maneuver element flanks and assaults. Police should never be in a position where achieving fire superiority takes more than a second cop with a gun.
Belt fed machine guns are used for killing lots of people fast, or pinning them to cover while you move up and kill them. There isn't a setting for precise with a 240. If a cop was spraying full mags at someone near me, I'd probably take his rifle and shoot the guy before he cop kills someone with one of the 29 unaired shots per mag.

Aren't you concerned about officer safety? What if police need to fire 50-100 rounds from a belt-fed M2 over a 10-15 second period to allow a SWAT team to cross a street. They may need to suppress an entrenched gunman or a roof-top sniper...

Hell, they may even need artillery support... Police should be issued 120mm mortars, 155mm howitzers, get them a G6 155m Self-Propelled-Howitzer and let them attend artillery school!

OFFICER SAFETY!

[KABA556]

I don't agree with this premise. Everyone should be entitled to standard capacity magazines. The point of questioning whether LE has a justifiable need for FA weapons is because everyone isn't allowed them. If certain groups are going to be restricted, then those that aren't need to prove justification.

I'm sure are limited cases when LE could justify full auto. However, the topic comes up as our civilian police force becomes more militarized. Are they gearing up to counter bad guys or to counter the general population?

If America attacks Iran and gets mired in what will prove to be a long drawn out quagmire with no end in sight, the police may very well need belt-fed fully-automatic weapons to mow down protesters across the nation.


When the economy totally implodes they may very well need such weapons to mow down people who are outraged and refusing to obey bankers telling them to move into the street so the homes can be sold to those who still have money.

[KABA556]

The only use for full auto, or even burst it to achieve fire superiority as a base of movement. A Marine squad uses full auto/burst to pin an enemy with overwhelming fire while a maneuver element flanks and assaults. Police should never be in a position where achieving fire superiority takes more than a second cop with a gun.
Belt fed machine guns are used for killing lots of people fast, or pinning them to cover while you move up and kill them. There isn't a setting for precise with a 240. If a cop was spraying full mags at someone near me, I'd probably take his rifle and shoot the guy before he cop kills someone with one of the 29 unaired shots per mag.

Police should erase "to protect and serve" from the sides of their cars and replace it with "to destroy the enemy by maneuver and fire."

Of course we know who the enemy happens to be. Law-abiding patriotic citizens who insist on their rights, are the enemy.

[nothing4u]

No, they should not have automatic weapons since it will not improve their accuracy. However, they should carry much larger magazines to compensate for their marksmanship skills.

I'll be more generous. Just give them low yield hand gernades. You can't really miss a bad guy holed up inside a room and also won't turn the whole neighborhood into swiss cheese.

[five.five-six]

I'll be more generous. Just give them low yield hand gernades. You can't really miss a bad guy holed up inside a room and also won't turn the whole neighborhood into swiss cheese.

I don't think this would send the right message

[SactoDoug]

I can think of no legitimate reason for a law enforcement agency to have M2 machine guns.