Angeles range reloading store problem

[bill_k_lopez]

When I was a kid I used to hit primers with a hammer.

+1

We also used to drill holes in a 2x4 and hit .22lr like there was no tomorrow!!

Ah the intelligence of youth..

[bill_k_lopez]

Ok. So I see the responsibilities on my end.

What are there on their end in your opinion?

None - caveat emptor - thats how the world works for most of us responsible adults.

[sl0re10]

None - caveat emptor - thats how the world works for most of us responsible adults.

Yeah; I know a lot of calguns people think that way... but in fact; it is not the way the world really works. As soon as they injure someone with bad advice the 'reloading store' will be no more.. and the person who gave the advice will probably loose their house... and I'm ok that the world works like that.

When I'm at my job and customer's ask me things; I make sure my answers are correct... so we don't get sued later.

[CrippledPidgeon]

I'm doing it. I'm using the manual (or on line data from the powder maker) for everything and just doing low end. They were very clear on the need in the class to use load data... and that pressure could be higher in your actual rifle than the test one in the book. If anyone blows up their rifle after that class it isn't the teacher's fault IMO. Thanks though; good advice.

I also don't trust my powder measure at all and weigh each round on a scale pre and post powder load... and I borrowed two other scales to make sure mine was working properly.

That said; I'm still able to make them pretty quickly.

Yeah; I know a lot of calguns people think that way... but in fact; it is not the way the world really works. As soon as they injure someone with bad advice the 'reloading store' will be no more.. and the person who gave the advice will probably loose their house... and I'm ok that the world works like that.

When I'm at my job and customer's ask me things; I make sure my answers are correct... so we don't get sued later.

That's why I never gave out advice about reloading unless I was absolutely certain.

Most people who reload tend to specialize. It makes sense, you're not going to study reloading for a caliber that you don't have. But the unfortunate reality about reloading is that there are so many powder and primer combinations for each caliber that it's very hard to know every product that you sell, and what combinations they do and don't work well with.

I had guys come in, ask me for advice/opinions about X powder/primer/whatever, and no matter what I told them, I was usually "wrong" ("XX powder is FAR superior to YY powder. Why are you telling me this crap?"). Pretty much, as far as I was concerned, you tell me what you want, and I get it for you unless we don't have it. You don't know the answer, and I'll sell you the reloading manual. You don't want the reloading manual, well you're SOL, because I either don't know, or am not going to tell you the answer.

[bill_k_lopez]

Yeah; I know a lot of calguns people think that way... but in fact; it is not the way the world really works. As soon as they injure someone with bad advice the 'reloading store' will be no more.. and the person who gave the advice will probably loose their house... and I'm ok that the world works like that.

When I'm at my job and customer's ask me things; I make sure my answers are correct... so we don't get sued later.

"Thats how the world works for most of us responsible adults."

[Tanner68]

Sorry but no; a business is responsible for the advice they give their customers. At least as in so far as making good on sales they screwed up by being wrong... but really; they're liable also if someone gets hurt...

I did my end by double checking before using. They need to do theirs and not give out wrong info. Personal responsibility applies to them, their actions, and their words also. When in doubt "I don't know" is a better answer than winging it.

Do you run your own business OP, or have in the past?

And aren't you holding the salesman to higher standard than yourself?

Can't wait for you to open a reloading store. It will be like shopping at Zappos or REI. I can just return everything that doesn't work out. The salesman said so ya know....

Also, I was wondering, is there a chance the salesman could have been correct. You showed him the bullets after all, and not the brass. Could he have been correct? Is there a round or load that uses 6.5 primers and 223 bullets?

[postal]

Yeah; I know a lot of calguns people think that way... but in fact; it is not the way the world really works. As soon as they injure someone with bad advice the 'reloading store' will be no more.. and the person who gave the advice will probably loose their house... and I'm ok that the world works like that.

When I'm at my job and customer's ask me things; I make sure my answers are correct... so we don't get sued later.

Nope.

Reloading is a SERIOUS thing. It is **YOUR** responsibility. And yours alone. Is there some kind of written contract with a guarantee that you follow some salespersons advice, THEY are liable, and you're just the schmuck for following it?

If you arent comfortable with that, then buy ammo.

No one takes back primer/powder because the chance someone could tamper with it. No one takes back medications for the same reason.

You didnt know what you needed, you trusted some idiot salesman to know what you needed, and you were BOTH WRONG!

Tell us... is this the FIRST TIME a salesman sold you something you didnt need?????


So... There you are... not knowing what you want/need.... Standing in front of a low wage "salesperson" screaming "take my money!!!" So the low wage SALESPERSON who probably doesnt even reload, says... "ok...."

I keep a list of all the powders suitable for 223 in my wallet. It's a long list. I know the powders I *WANT*... but when I find any powder that will work, thats on my list- in my wallet... I'll buy it.

Perhaps you should do the same. Same with primers/bullets. When you have a lot of supplies on the shelves, a list of what you're low on, so you know what to buy when you see it comes in handy....

For instance, I just bought more large pistol primers. 1 case per customer.... Shame I have plenty of them, and need more small pistol or small rifle instead.... Oh well... I'll use them eventually, but I need small more than large right now.... Keep a list. Business card size in your wallet- it's always with you when you end up in a store.



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If none of that makes any sense to you, and you still firmly disagree...

Please PM me. I have a bridge for sale, and I guarantee it's a great opportunity for you.

[sl0re10]

"Thats how the world works for most of us responsible adults."

When Nemesis tracks you down; think of me.

[sl0re10]

Nope.

Reloading is a SERIOUS thing. It is **YOUR** responsibility. And yours alone. Is there some kind of written contract with a guarantee that you follow some salespersons advice, THEY are liable, and you're just the schmuck for following it?

I didn't reload anything with the wrong components they directed me to. I checked and found the advice was bad. That's how we got here.

As to a contract or how the world works. There is no written contract I was told about advice; there need not be to demonstrate their liability. In fact; even if they were to create such a contract it would be legally useless / of no more value than the kinds handed out at parking lots and carnivals. They're [all] responsible and liable for their actions, advice, suggestions, products, and services. Even if they (and some of you) want to imagine they are not.

[GLOCKINGRAT]

off topic here but has anybody been to angeles range and seen a middleaged guy, skinny, black hair wearing classes idk if he works there or just a regular but seemed like he was in everyones beeswax when i was there this weekend

[postal]

I didn't reload anything with the wrong components they directed me to. I checked and found the advice was bad. That's how we got here.

As to a contract or how the world works. There is no written contract I was told about advice; there need not be to demonstrate their liability. In fact; even if they were to create such a contract it would be legally useless / of no more value than the kinds handed out at parking lots and carnivals. They're [all] responsible and liable for their actions, advice, suggestions, products, and services. Even if they (and some of you) want to imagine they are not.

Then clearly you do not understand how the world works, and I still have that bridge, though I've been getting several offers.... You need to hurry!

[elsolo]

Every single poster to this thread has said the exact same thing:

It's is 100% YOUR responsibility to determine what reloading components are appropriate for your reloads.

Since you mentioned that you took a reloading class recently, I'll assume you are mostly ignorant about reloading. Buy a book, Speer makes a nice one, read it cover to cover twice. There is a lot to learn other than powder charge, bullet weight, and OAL.

You bout $40 worth of components that you don't have an immediate need for, BFD. Sell them, find a use for them, or consider it a cheap lesson you didn't mail order 5k of them and pay hazmat.

[elsolo]

Middle class first world problem. I'm out $40 and it burns.

and hey; like I told the guy at the shop... I'm asking it be made right; not necessarily that they be taken back. I also never asked for a refund. Just a credit... and I would have been open to a less than 1 to 1 / 100% credit....

So you want them to refund you money because you bought the wrong item? You do understand they cannot accept the item from you and resell it?

How is a refund different from a store credit when both scenarios end with you getting to keep the goods and get your money back too?

[sl0re10]

Every single poster to this thread has said the exact same thing:

It's is 100% YOUR responsibility to determine what reloading components are appropriate for your reloads.

Since you mentioned that you took a reloading class recently, I'll assume you are mostly ignorant about reloading. Buy a book, Speer makes a nice one, read it cover to cover twice. There is a lot to learn other than powder charge, bullet weight, and OAL.

You bout $40 worth of components that you don't have an immediate need for, BFD. Sell them, find a use for them, or consider it a cheap lesson you didn't mail order 5k of them and pay hazmat.

Naa, not everyone.

And I'll tell you since your not listening either... I did check and didn't use the components. All the rounds I've actually made have been great. No jams, no problems / signs of pressure problems, and accurate.

I just didn't go in knowing what to buy and made the mistake of listening to their staff.

[sl0re10]

So you want them to refund you money because you bought the wrong item? You do understand they cannot accept the item from you and resell it?

How is a refund different from a store credit when both scenarios end with you getting to keep the goods and get your money back too?

Yes. They recommended the wrong item to me and I want a credit and/or some effort to fix the problem they caused.

A store credit is a way to cut their loss. I'd use it to 'buy' other items that have a mark up / profit margin built in so its now a 100% loss. Heck; I'd have even been open to a partial store credit.

If it were not for the hazmat shipping fee I'd have this disputed on my card and [100%] refunded by now...