Since when is riveting mags to 10rd OK?

[tenpercentfirearms]

I wont mess with the pop rivet crap either. I worry about it wearing down or bending/snapping off. The what? Besides that, I had a phone call with a DOJ guy asking about the SKS and tossed in a Q about the hi-cap mag bodies being permanently converted to create 10/30 mags... his response was that a 30 rd mag Permanently altered to restrict the load to 10 rds or lead is fine... BUT if any portion of the magazine body ( such as a cavity below the pinned / welded 10 rd base plate) allows you to "store" additional ammo, it would be a Hi-cap as the ammunition is not required to be engaged by the spring/follower to be considered in the round count.

So... make sure that there is no way to disassemble that 10/30 mag and shove more ammo into the bottom of it. Fill that void with epoxy or tack weld those floorplates on.

Maybe he is a moron and has no idea what hes talking about. But I can just see that arguement cause hell for some poor bast@rd that bought a Hi-cap with a pop rivit and some spray paint.

- my 1.5 cents

Yeah I would like to see them try that one in court. I could duct tape some rounds to the side of my magazine, is that the same thing?

I agree with you guys. Pop rivets do not seem very permanent. A set screw does not seem permanent at all.

Personally I am in love with the C Products 10/10 magazine and see no reason to mess with the 10/30s except for looks. I must admit I have two of the C Products 10/30s. But one is on my wife's gun.

[DB2]

Metroshot(?) I believe was or is selling a Magpul Pmag with a rivet. Ever since, it seems that people think that method is just fine. To scary for me. I thought that permanence was defined as having to destroy the mag to convert it. I can't see how drilling out a rivet head is destroying.

[bohoki]

its a bit confusing to me as well

say i have a pre-ban(as in pre 1999) hi cap and i want it to only hold 10 for an oll do i have to permanantly modify it or could i just put in one of colts U metal blocks

to me it seems that if one were to sell a conversion magazine it had better be permanantly 10 round holding only(because selling of a large cap is illegal) but if one were to import parts and assemble it to only hold 10 with a hunk of wood how would that be assembling a large capacity magazine?

also there is the paradox of all the 10 round mags that are out there that could easily be modified to hold more via attachable extended bottoms
seems to me that they are not permanantly modified?

[vega]

Yeah riveted and set screw mags won't cut it for me. I'm going to do csome 10/20 pmags and epoxy the floor plate on. taking it apart would mean pretty much destroying it. Better to be safe, than a test case and sorry.

Been doing the same thing here. I epoxied the floor plates. I don't care if it does not look good as long as it works fine.

[Two Shots]

In regards to AK's
If you use a pre-99 mag body to make a 10/20 or 10/30 do they count as 922r parts if they are U.S parts such as Springs, Follower? or would they only count the 10/10 mag made for Calif by a U.S company as a compliant part?

[leelaw]

In regards to AK's
If you use a pre-99 mag body to make a 10/20 or 10/30 do they count as 922r parts if they are U.S parts such as Springs, Follower? or would they only count the 10/10 mag made for Calif by a U.S company as a compliant part?

922(r) breaks it down into parts: magazine body, follower, baseplate.

If the magazine body, baseplate, and follower are American-made, then they count. If not, then no.

[Lateralus]

I too dont trust rivets or small pieces of metal.

When I was selling my 10/30 5.45 mags, each one had a wooden block epoxied to the mag body, the spring was cut, and the floorplate was epoxied on. Since I cannot weld plastic, I thought this was the only way to permanently modify them. I stand by my work.

[hoffmang]

The 403 error has been fixed above.

Based on the failed rulemaking, a rivet with epoxy looks to be an approved method of creating permanence.

-Gene

[bwiese]

I agree with TheDrickel that it's best to err on the side of caution, and I don't like some of the "reduced-to-10/looks-like-30" mags out there.

HOWEVER, it appears the DOJ has approved some pistols for sale in California with magazine tubes that have a "pinch" in them for 10 round restriction. I think this could well be useful in any defense, I'm trying to figure out which brands/factory mags are this way.

[SJgunguy24]

I know S&W sigma mags have a "pinch" in them,and it looks like if you stuffed a couple more in there that the mag will split.

[dfletcher]

I agree with TheDrickel that it's best to err on the side of caution, and I don't like some of the "reduced-to-10/looks-like-30" mags out there.

HOWEVER, it appears the DOJ has approved some pistols for sale in California with magazine tubes that have a "pinch" in them for 10 round restriction. I think this could well be useful in any defense, I'm trying to figure out which brands/factory mags are this way.

Who's in the hot seat if a 10/30 magazine is deemed not legal? The fellow who has it, the company that manufactured/imported it or both? Of course I'm guessing both. I was at a gun show and the "10 round" AR mags were made so by a single .25" dimple punched into the back edge of the magazine. A simple drill out would have changed that or by simply making a corresponding cut in the tail end of the mag follower.

Does CA DOJ look at these things & cert that they are CA compliant? Or is it another one of those "58 CA DAs decide" deals?

[hoffmang]

Who's in the hot seat if a 10/30 magazine is deemed not legal? The fellow who has it, the company that manufactured/imported it or both? Of course I'm guessing both. I was at a gun show and the "10 round" AR mags were made so by a single .25" dimple punched into the back edge of the magazine. A simple drill out would have changed that or by simply making a corresponding cut in the tail end of the mag follower.

You raise an interesting point.

If the end user makes no changes to a 10/30 but that 10/30 accepts 11 rounds then the person who import or sold the magazine would have violated the law - not the buyer/user.

If the end user does something with tools to a 10/30 to make it hold more, then that's probably manufacturing and the end user would be violating the law.

DOJ BoF will not certify anything anymore. They kept realizing how screwed up the laws are and how they don't fit Alison's agenda.

-Gene

[Addax]

I have some of the pop rivet mags (some are pictured with my rifles).

Worst Solution in the world.

I purchased them for the looks appeal, but after I pushed down on several of these magazines rivets via the follower, I could easily bend the rivet, so I tore down all of my riveted magazine, and I have been working on a better solution, that has already been done, but I am adding an extra layer of protection.

I have been tinkering with several ideas, and I am working towards a more sensible and permanent 10/30 solution using some products made by a certain Cal Gunner, plus I am setting up my 10/30 magazines that if someone were to try and reverse engineer the 10 round modification, they would destroy a part or parts of the magazine.

I hope to have these magazines out in about 30-45 days.

[tenpercentfirearms]

The problem with these riveted magazines is there is double trouble. It might be true if you bought them from someone in the state that you would not be guilty of a crime because there is nothing illegal about purchasing large capacity magazines. The seller could posisbly be in trouble and the DA might charge you with something else, but you might be able to get off. If you bought them from out of state and had them shipped in, you might be considered the importer and then you would be in trouble.

However, the problem lies when you stick a 10/30 magazine into a fixed magazine rifle. If they determine that your 10/30 with a rivet is not permanent, then it is a large capacity magazine. Any fixed magazine rifle with a magazine with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds is an assault weapon and a felony.

Now the good news is, as Gene pointed out, the DOJ tried to say that our ARs were illegal unless the magazines were permanently fixed into the rifle, say with a rivet. So by their logic if riveting a magazine to the rifle is permanent, then riveting the magazine might also too be permanent. However, this justification was pulled from a failed attempt to amend the California Code of Regulations, which means it has no real legal basis. It would only be used in your court case to try and prove what the DOJ was thinking at the time, which was two years ago.

Again, this is a lot of gray area for cosmetics. How much money do you want to spend to prove you were exercising your constitutional right to keep and bear cool looking magazines? I would rather spend that money on my right to keep and bear arms. However, I would respect anyone who is willing to do so.

[deleted by PC police]

my 10/30 that I got only has a tab bent in to stop the follower from going past 10 rounds. It's not like that couldn't be drilled out either.