Birdshot in battle?

[TAK]

I dont know the first thing about combat so this could be dumb question. But 150 yards seems like a long ways to throw a grenade?

It's a very long way, I was using that to reinforce the point that 150/100 is a very close engagement. It doesn't take a much effort to run 50 yards, you could cover that in the amount of time it would take to change a mag.

[olhunter]

...Not to stop or injure enemy soldiers, but to annoy/blind/suppress them.

Why in Gods name would you want to 'annoy' them? You fire mortars and whatever else you have at them to kill them. Period. It's pretty annoying if you're them.

I dont know the first thing about combat so this could be dumb question. But 150 yards seems like a long ways to throw a grenade?

Now you know the first thing.

Don't try to throw a grenade 150 yds. The people 25 yds from you will be pissed.

[evidens83]

With a handle like voiceofreason, your reasoning is freakin retarded!! LOL

[perpetual otter]

LoL

[Ron-Solo]

[winnre]

[voiceofreason]

With a handle like voiceofreason, your reasoning is freakin retarded!! LOL

I have always wondered what would happen if birdshot was used on the battlefield.

I simply asked a question of the Calguns community.

The responses I've received are sufficient to answer the question.


---


We as a community have a been accused numerous times of being insensitive to new members and people asking questions.

They come to Calguns asking a genuine question, and receive ridicule and derision for asking such a "stupid" "asinine" "retarded" question.

The questions usually involve open carry, unloaded open carry, using birdshot for home defense, or "the 2nd Amendment protects our right to guns therefore the antis have no legal argument".

Not everyone reads and posts on gun forum boards as frequently as many CG members.

Many times, people do not contribute in any productive manner to the arguments and threads posted. They either parrot what others "in the know" have stated previously, or ridicule others for not being "in the know" about a specific topic.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again here.

As a community, we need to develop more patience and tact in dealing with new members and in answering non-troll questions.

Every member old or new that asks a question and is treated badly is another possible Calgunner we may lose in the overall fight. If you don't like the community of people, you may be less likely to support even your own rights.

I know numerous women that don't like the gun community in general based on their shoddy treatment in gun stores. They often bring me or another male along to be recognized and to not be condescended to when making a new gun purchase.

I'm too old to care what strangers on the web think of my questions. If I knew the answer, I wouldn't have asked. I generally search for answers to my questions and ignore the idiots looking to make themselves feel better by ridiculing others.

I do worry that such behavior reflects poorly on us as a community, but to a limited degree respect that "Hey, that's just you being you".

As far as my handle is concerned, it's been the fallback point for weak arguments and personal attacks for years. I'm tired of even bothering to explain it. It's an internet handle for a forum board. I'll leave it at that.

Perhaps I'll change it to "CallOfDutyStudSlayerCostaHaleyFanboi" if that would make people feel better.

If you'd like some more entertainment and to read more "retarded" questions, just follow my posts.

I will continue to ask questions I don't know the answer to.

My "Google-fu" is weak and I wasn't able to find an answer using that method.

I'm certainly glad the Calguns community is able to answer my question with facepalms, LOLs, and "With a handle like voiceofreason, your reasoning is freakin retarded!! LOL".

[Scuba Steve33]

You have clearly never been in combat, or even understand combat besides call of duty.

Birdshot can make it to maybe 100/150 yards before it would be nothing more than the equivalent of a a pebble being thrown up in the wind.

At 100/150 yards you aren't trying to suppress or distract the enemy. You are throwing grenades and emptying mags. The thought of doing anything but killing them at that close or a range would be suicide.

You clearly have never been in combat either. Thirty five meters is the max effective hand grenade range of an M67, which is greater than most.

It's a very long way, I was using that to reinforce the point that 150/100 is a very close engagement. It doesn't take a much effort to run 50 yards, you could cover that in the amount of time it would take to change a mag.

It's a very long way but at the same time a very close engagement? One hundred meters is not that close of an engagement. Try running fifty meters with a full kit on, over ****ed up terrain and while taking fire. It will take you much longer than you think.

Voice of Reason, your question was not a valid one. If that hurts your feelings, grow thicker skin. Why in the hell would you want to annoy the enemy during combat? You only have one goal during combat and that is to kill him. Period. You hit him and he's wounded, shoot him again until he's dead. When you have 7.62x51 machine guns spitting rounds what could birdshot even do? It would be a waste of someone with a rifle if they were firing their shotgun. Your question just does not make any logical sense. Think about the circumstances.

The Mossberg 500s we carried in Afghanistan were loaded with 00 buck and only used for breaching.

[smle-man]

Very good points voiceofreason. The gun community as a group can be pretty dismissive of the 'new guy' and hazing seems to be pretty common. I could have, and should have replied more thoughtfully rather than reverting to my default mode of mild sarcasm. My wife was very thankful when firearms related stuff became available on the web to buy rather than having to go into gunshops. As a blonde, green eyed easy on the eyes female she hated the oogling she got in gunshops when she went to buy stuff for me and several times the counter jockey at the shop (different shops) refused to acknowledge her presence completely instead waiting on the men present. She said going into a gunshop made her very uneasy. The shooting community has to change its ways!

[bombadillo]

using a cut shell as a slug would be your best defense if all you had was bird shot.

[voiceofreason]

Voice of Reason, your question was not a valid one. If that hurts your feelings, grow thicker skin. Why in the hell would you want to annoy the enemy during combat? You only have one goal during combat and that is to kill him. Period. You hit him and he's wounded, shoot him again until he's dead. When you have 7.62x51 machine guns spitting rounds what could birdshot even do? It would be a waste of someone with a rifle if they were firing their shotgun. Your question just does not make any logical sense. Think about the circumstances.

The Mossberg 500s we carried in Afghanistan were loaded with 00 buck and only used for breaching.

My skin is plenty thick. Especially in regards to people I've never met before.

Why would I want to annoy the enemy during combat?

My "retarded" thinking was that small pellets would possibly make it more difficult to return fire. Eyes and skin are delicate (yes, people can wear goggles). I was not aware of how little energy there is at 150 yards from birdshot. I was thinking that #1 birdshot at .16" or BB at .18" was close enough in size to #4 buckshot at distance to make return fire more difficult. #6 birdshot was included as an afterthought.

The thinking was to make it more difficult for the opposing force to return fire in addition to using lethal force. Not instead of lethal force. I should have been more specific, though I made the mistake of thinking that was obvious. I was clearly wrong on multiple counts.

I've never been on the receiving end of birdshot like other Calgunners have. I acknowledge their experiences.

My logic may be flawed, but the point is that I WAS thinking about the circumstances and asking for help in understanding the concept better.

Logical to you is not logical to me if I do not have information available to you but not to me.

I didn't know that 00 buck was used as a breaching round. I was told (clearly mistakenly) that there were specialized breaching rounds available, or on a budget, (gasp!) birdshot. They said that buckshot was too high a risk for ricochets. In this case, I would acknowledge your experience on the matter.

[olhunter]

....My "retarded" thinking was that small pellets would possibly make it more difficult to return fire...

I get what you're saying, but I think you're missing the basic foundation.

The BEST way to make it difficult for them to return fire is to KILL them with overwhelming firepower. Not sprinkle them with pixie dust.

Birdshot is simply not effective. No better than throwing rocks at them. It MIGHT buy you an extra second or two while they go "WTF?", but then you're going to die.

[tackdriver]

Most likely result will be a lot more dead birds on the battlefield........

[TAK]

You clearly have never been in combat either. Thirty five meters is the max effective hand grenade range of an M67, which is greater than most.



It's a very long way but at the same time a very close engagement? One hundred meters is not that close of an engagement. Try running fifty meters with a full kit on, over ****ed up terrain and while taking fire. It will take you much longer than you think.

Voice of Reason, your question was not a valid one. If that hurts your feelings, grow thicker skin. Why in the hell would you want to annoy the enemy during combat? You only have one goal during combat and that is to kill him. Period. You hit him and he's wounded, shoot him again until he's dead. When you have 7.62x51 machine guns spitting rounds what could birdshot even do? It would be a waste of someone with a rifle if they were firing their shotgun. Your question just does not make any logical sense. Think about the circumstances.

The Mossberg 500s we carried in Afghanistan were loaded with 00 buck and only used for breaching.

There is no max effective range of a grenade, you throw it...
There is a kill radius but it's not 35 meters.

I have ran 50 meters in full combat load, you're in the army so you have never ran it but you may have heard of the infamous range 400. Anyone who has been to emv can attest to long runs in full gear.

I have thrown a grenade in combat, just because you are taking fire at 100m doesn't mean everyone is in a line at 100m. People are constantly moving on either side of the battlefield. You don't know my credentials and I don't know yours but if you want to tell me 100m isn't very close you have either never been in a real engagement at 100m or it happened while you were in a fortified position. And 50m is not a far run, especially with the adrenaline you experience in combat.

[gundad]

Now you know the first thing.

Don't try to throw a grenade 150 yds. The people 25 yds from you will be pissed.

Actually I was wrong so now I know two things. The other is to never engage land campaign in Asia