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  • losgatoscc
    Junior Member
    • Dec 2012
    • 29

    priveleged information

    was coincidentally hanging out with a employee of the atf, he called a associate at the doj and asked him for some info and called his partner in the san jose office to ask some more info. this is what we gathered on speakerphone talking to both departments.

    the doj has absolutely no record of a actual audit. they have had several complaints filed in the last few days for improper business operations withing the context of dealing firearms. this location is required to keep their doors open during business hours unless the business has no employees to legally function within the constraints of the business model. the doj was very clear on the process of a audit which normally requires the business to be open or a audit which also rates their professionalism as well as checking the books and sn for concurrent record keeping. a audit with a store that does over 200 dros transactions a day and has a inventory of around 250k or more should take no more than 8 hours or less with two state and federal officials present. all of the audit is handled by the store owner personally so the doj and the atf dont have a he did she did situation on their hands for false info. as posted earlier if a violation exists, there is immediate action taken with a write up and must be corrected asap.

    the atf told us that they could not divulge info about a investigation. but his slip for where his employees are...he did tell us hes not working with valkyrie at all. atf will only get involved if they are selling guns illegally and or doing things under the table. if doj sees irregularities in the books or dockets, even a single missing comma. the atf automatically does a investigation. i think we can all agree that va does do its share in paperwork and handling of documents very well.

    heres some things to think about. last weekend was the fresno gun show. good chance maybe they took off to go sell at the gun shows where the individual business get more money there than they make in their stores. also if the general manager who worked there got fired or left. the entire facility is **** down until the owner can come and re hire a new general manager. this will take a long time due to interviewing and the lengthy background checks involved in ruining a gun store.

    the oddness of having a return email is strictly to satisfy the trolls on here speculating what is happening...so follow through and get your refudnds. i saw this, and was hanging with a friend who lucky helped shed some light on this situation. but really the audit or auditor is either having to completely re establish a business model and or re check all internal stocks...this includes their lengthy sales of suppressors and regulated items...which by federal regulatory policies requires - if a store has to do a "internal audit"(not state or federal) it is assumed that someone was let go for fraud and in many cases the gov requires the store to individually track all the sn down for all these items and physically make sure they are the correct possession. this requires alot of manpower which is not available in store. food for thought

    please be patient everyone, im still talking to others about these details of the store. i think they are clean so to speak. just lost a large part of their company. the owner either isn't versed in the stores ability to function without his GM so to speak. and i heard the owner was sorta well off gun collector and enthusiast...a business man but not a customer service agent.

    they probably arent getting really audited, reason being, the doj currently says there are two known stores with a public audit. and their agents are there now )

    maybe im just reading too deep in this now hahahahaha, but valkyrie always took care of me, and i never had one problem with them at all, or a delay or anything. if you guys think your soo smart about your custom orders...am i the only smart one that has it paid and finished and sent to my dealer(valkyrie) so in the end im only doing a transfer> maybe im just the only one. unless you've considered what could be normally done, don't diss VA just because u put a order in and their cali suppliers are dried up. remember YOU put the order in. deal with it or call your credit card company.

    the atf also told me how it works if valkyrie shuts down.

    atf on will confiscate guns if they find the dealer is working illegally and or not responsive to corrective actions

    atf will only confiscate and almost rarely support the transaction to another facility

    atf if confiscated will destroy or render all serialized parts useless and allow you to pickup your property or usually not return it

    atf suggests if VA voluntarily is going out of business they are obligated by law to open the doors and release all properties before closing down...along with facilitating at your expense the transfer of a item either pre or current dros, all releases however will be deemed okay if dross cleared, va shall release all properties.

    atf states if VA is closed and does not comply with these terms, they are obligated to ship back your item to sender for further re direction...or to reimburse you the moneys

    atf also said if this does not happen you have to file a civil suit, no class action suits for damages are allowed for pre/current/post ffl holders due to limited liability details

    the atf does not do any audits they only investigate

    the doj does audits and unless a active investigation is present, they will tell you. they will not hide it as i spoke with someone earlier about this. if a investigation is under way, doj will have no comment and refer you to atf who has jurisdiction over these events

    once again this all came of the the mouths of doj and atf today

    any questions call
    doj 9162277527
    atf 4088825250

    one last thing


    asta lavista baby
    youll have to pry these guns from my cold dead hands...

    Comment

    • losgatoscc
      Junior Member
      • Dec 2012
      • 29

      Originally posted by sully007
      First post and this is what you post? Why would your friend need to talk with his partner if he works for ATF?
      my friend works in the tech side...he called a guy he knows whos a investigator for the atf, he told us some info, and fwd us to a internal information line and along with a contact for the doj for public information. also my friend is not a regulatory type of person, he does technical stuff and research for the doj along with some other stuff.
      youll have to pry these guns from my cold dead hands...

      Comment

      • Damn True
        Senior Member
        • Jun 2011
        • 1397

        I don't have a dog in the fight as I've never done business with them and don't have an order in or anything. I fully sympathize with those who have an order with VA and are concerned about the transaction and any funds that may be in the ether.

        That said, I'd offer the following: News travels fast, bad news travels faster and bad news on the internet travels at nearly the speed of light. Just sayin......

        For those, like me, who may have been considering but have not yet availed themselves of VA services who are looking for a possible alternative while VA sorts things out.....Are there any other shops within a reasonable distance who do offer SSE on Springfield offerings?
        Last edited by Damn True; 12-04-2012, 3:51 PM.
        My personal blog: The Damn True Experiment

        Comment

        • losgatoscc
          Junior Member
          • Dec 2012
          • 29

          Originally posted by MaceWindu
          Ok gents, here is the scoop:

          Let me explain what happened. I ordered a STI Eagle 5.0 in 9mm on 11/26/2012 from Oak Hill Enterprises...had it shipped to Valkyrie (I was unaware of their *reputation*).

          *Oak Hill was VERY professional. Shipped out on 11/27/2012.

          *Package was signed for by: Sabbin Javed on 11/29/2012
          Note: No phone call was placed to me from VA that my package had arrived - ZERO communication.

          *I head down there on 11/30/2012 to DROS my pistol, store is closed with the sign in the window: "Inventory/ DOJ Audit store is closed until further notice", with NO re-open date. Unacceptable. Period.

          I sent an email stating the issues, I get an immediate response. They want my contact number to call me. I reply with the number. Waited a few hours, nada...zippo.

          *12/01, I head down to the store to have my gun transferred to a different dealer, if VA has DOJ issues, NOT my problem. The manager (Connor) was very helpful after I "impressed upon him" (he saw that I was about business ) the issues I had and the amount of money I spent to arrange having this pistol sent here. He packaged up my gun WHILE I STOOD there and watched. I received a USPS tracking number and a copy of my receipt (paid $15 to have it shipped to another dealer, worth every nickel).

          *12/03, tracked the package. It showed this on the USPS website:



          *12/04, Same message. Huh?

          Left work and went to VA. DOJ Agent P, performing the inspection saw me through the window: Suit, tie, expensive dress shoes, came out and I explained what happened.

          This gent was 100% professional and to the point. He looked for my package and I was amazed at some of the OL HG's I saw that these clowns at VA had, yet had NOT CALLED anyone on or processed. The agent was superb in his methos of looking into this matter: Cross referencing, errors, tracking, etc...he was VERY pro-gun and super helpful.

          I will be writing his superior about his outstanding service. My situation is being resolved and I am happy to get my item out of that place. Never again will I step foot in there.


          Mace
          i have three lowers there.....trapped...i cant even do my dros....how did you get in touch with them to have it transferred to a different dealer...i trust VA...as much as i can, but i too do not want to deal with a doj audit, just get the paperwork over so i can get my items
          youll have to pry these guns from my cold dead hands...

          Comment

          • NorCal Einstein
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 1242

            Originally posted by losgatoscc
            was coincidentally hanging out with a employee of the atf, he called a associate at the doj and asked him for some info and called his partner in the san jose office to ask some more info. this is what we gathered on speakerphone talking to both departments.

            the doj has absolutely no record of a actual audit. they have had several complaints filed in the last few days for improper business operations withing the context of dealing firearms. this location is required to keep their doors open during business hours unless the business has no employees to legally function within the constraints of the business model. the doj was very clear on the process of a audit which normally requires the business to be open or a audit which also rates their professionalism as well as checking the books and sn for concurrent record keeping. a audit with a store that does over 200 dros transactions a day and has a inventory of around 250k or more should take no more than 8 hours or less with two state and federal officials present. all of the audit is handled by the store owner personally so the doj and the atf dont have a he did she did situation on their hands for false info. as posted earlier if a violation exists, there is immediate action taken with a write up and must be corrected asap.

            the atf told us that they could not divulge info about a investigation. but his slip for where his employees are...he did tell us hes not working with valkyrie at all. atf will only get involved if they are selling guns illegally and or doing things under the table. if doj sees irregularities in the books or dockets, even a single missing comma. the atf automatically does a investigation. i think we can all agree that va does do its share in paperwork and handling of documents very well.

            heres some things to think about. last weekend was the fresno gun show. good chance maybe they took off to go sell at the gun shows where the individual business get more money there than they make in their stores. also if the general manager who worked there got fired or left. the entire facility is **** down until the owner can come and re hire a new general manager. this will take a long time due to interviewing and the lengthy background checks involved in ruining a gun store.

            the oddness of having a return email is strictly to satisfy the trolls on here speculating what is happening...so follow through and get your refudnds. i saw this, and was hanging with a friend who lucky helped shed some light on this situation. but really the audit or auditor is either having to completely re establish a business model and or re check all internal stocks...this includes their lengthy sales of suppressors and regulated items...which by federal regulatory policies requires - if a store has to do a "internal audit"(not state or federal) it is assumed that someone was let go for fraud and in many cases the gov requires the store to individually track all the sn down for all these items and physically make sure they are the correct possession. this requires alot of manpower which is not available in store. food for thought

            please be patient everyone, im still talking to others about these details of the store. i think they are clean so to speak. just lost a large part of their company. the owner either isn't versed in the stores ability to function without his GM so to speak. and i heard the owner was sorta well off gun collector and enthusiast...a business man but not a customer service agent.

            they probably arent getting really audited, reason being, the doj currently says there are two known stores with a public audit. and their agents are there now )

            maybe im just reading too deep in this now hahahahaha, but valkyrie always took care of me, and i never had one problem with them at all, or a delay or anything. if you guys think your soo smart about your custom orders...am i the only smart one that has it paid and finished and sent to my dealer(valkyrie) so in the end im only doing a transfer> maybe im just the only one. unless you've considered what could be normally done, don't diss VA just because u put a order in and their cali suppliers are dried up. remember YOU put the order in. deal with it or call your credit card company.

            the atf also told me how it works if valkyrie shuts down.

            atf on will confiscate guns if they find the dealer is working illegally and or not responsive to corrective actions

            atf will only confiscate and almost rarely support the transaction to another facility

            atf if confiscated will destroy or render all serialized parts useless and allow you to pickup your property or usually not return it

            atf suggests if VA voluntarily is going out of business they are obligated by law to open the doors and release all properties before closing down...along with facilitating at your expense the transfer of a item either pre or current dros, all releases however will be deemed okay if dross cleared, va shall release all properties.

            atf states if VA is closed and does not comply with these terms, they are obligated to ship back your item to sender for further re direction...or to reimburse you the moneys

            atf also said if this does not happen you have to file a civil suit, no class action suits for damages are allowed for pre/current/post ffl holders due to limited liability details

            the atf does not do any audits they only investigate

            the doj does audits and unless a active investigation is present, they will tell you. they will not hide it as i spoke with someone earlier about this. if a investigation is under way, doj will have no comment and refer you to atf who has jurisdiction over these events

            once again this all came of the the mouths of doj and atf today

            any questions call
            doj 9162277527
            atf 4088825250

            one last thing


            asta lavista baby
            Quoted for posterity.

            I'm curious as to why you needed to create a new account just to post this info.

            Comment

            • sully007
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 1612

              Originally posted by GTXR390
              I'm here now, nobody at all

              Hope 'business as usual' means I can still get my HK45CT
              Your post was at 2:42 pm. I got the call from the store phone at 2:33 pm. He also said he would be there for awhile. Not sure why he would not answer the door, if he heard you knock. Again I would email him ( address is in the post above ) , leave your number and wait until he calls, set up a time and date to meet there. Hope this works for you.

              Comment

              • MaceWindu
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2005
                • 1220

                Originally posted by Damn True
                I don't have a dog in the fight as I've never done business with them and don't have an order in or anything. I fully sympathize with those who have an order with VA and are concerned about the transaction and any funds that may be in the ether.

                That said, I am generally loathe to participate in speculation about the health of a business or any problems they might be having. News travels fast, bad news travels faster and bad news on the internet travels at nearly the speed of light. Hence, I don't think it's right to engage in this type of discussion & FUD splashing where so little is known about what might or might not be the problem. The reason is that the posts in this thread will come up in internet searches regarding VA so if whatever the issue is turns out to be benign then some future inquiry may land someone on these comments and cast a bad light where it might not be deserved. Just sayin......

                For those, like me, who may have been considering but have not yet availed themselves of VA services who are looking for a possible alternative while VA sorts things out.....Are there any other shops within a reasonable distance who do offer SSE on Springfield offerings?
                Speculation? NO. I was there I saw the items with MY OWN EYES. This agent was very cool and could care LESS about the SSE. It's 100% LEGAL.

                That's NOT the issue, its shady business dealings and paperwork issues.
                "Superior gear will never make up for a lack of training or attitude"

                Comment

                • MaceWindu
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 1220

                  i have three lowers there.....trapped...i cant even do my dros....how did you get in touch with them to have it transferred to a different dealer...i trust VA...as much as i can, but i too do not want to deal with a doj audit, just get the paperwork over so i can get my items
                  Walked in last Sat. They were open for pickup only. I have a right to DO business anywhere I please like they have a right to refuse service.

                  Ship it out. Done.

                  MW
                  "Superior gear will never make up for a lack of training or attitude"

                  Comment

                  • bbogert
                    Member
                    • Nov 2012
                    • 177

                    So this guy is there now then yes? I'm heading there if that's the case - hour drive, but wanna get my hardware outta there.
                    When the government fears the people, there is liberty.
                    When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
                    sigpic
                    Thomas Jefferson

                    Comment

                    • Damn True
                      Senior Member
                      • Jun 2011
                      • 1397

                      Originally posted by MaceWindu
                      Speculation? NO. I was there I saw the items with MY OWN EYES. This agent was very cool and could care LESS about the SSE. It's 100% LEGAL.

                      That's NOT the issue, its shady business dealings and paperwork issues.
                      You very clearly do have 1st hand information. Many commenting in this thread do not. That was the point I was trying to make.

                      I've edited my original post for clarity.
                      My personal blog: The Damn True Experiment

                      Comment

                      • losgatoscc
                        Junior Member
                        • Dec 2012
                        • 29

                        Originally posted by NorCal Einstein
                        Quoted for posterity.

                        I'm curious as to why you needed to create a new account just to post this info.
                        ive always used these forums for good info, however i was not a member of any, and with my collection and time spent gunsmithing for everyone i know i thought id step it up and finally get on some useful forums with my hobby
                        youll have to pry these guns from my cold dead hands...

                        Comment

                        • alfred1222
                          Calguns Addict
                          • Jan 2010
                          • 7331

                          Originally posted by sully007
                          Do you think it's because of SSE's?
                          If its a DOJ audit, maybe. It's it's an ATF audit, no, they dont care about SSE

                          Originally posted by losgatoscc
                          the atf told us that they could not divulge info about a investigation. but his slip for where his employees are...he did tell us hes not working with valkyrie at all. atf will only get involved if they are selling guns illegally and or doing things under the table. if doj sees irregularities in the books or dockets, even a single missing comma. the atf automatically does a investigation. i think we can all agree that va does do its share in paperwork and handling of documents very well.
                          Did you not read the thread at all? First off, the ATF agents can and WILL lie to you, straight up, to your face. ATF audits are a surprise, they will just show up one morning and announce that an audit is happening. It happens once every 2-3 years or so, but it does happen. DOJ audits take less time, but they also happen more frequently, once every few months or so.

                          Originally posted by losgatoscc
                          heres some things to think about. last weekend was the fresno gun show. good chance maybe they took off to go sell at the gun shows where the individual business get more money there than they make in their stores. also if the general manager who worked there got fired or left. the entire facility is **** down until the owner can come and re hire a new general manager. this will take a long time due to interviewing and the lengthy background checks involved in ruining a gun store.
                          Let's stick to what we know, not speculation right??? And even if we assume that this is true, why wouldn't the owner get back into the business and run it himself while doing interviews, rather then lose profit by leaving his doors closed??


                          maybe im just reading too deep in this now hahahahaha, but valkyrie always took care of me, and i never had one problem with them at all, or a delay or anything. if you guys think your soo smart about your custom orders...am i the only smart one that has it paid and finished and sent to my dealer(valkyrie) so in the end im only doing a transfer> maybe im just the only one. unless you've considered what could be normally done, don't diss VA just because u put a order in and their cali suppliers are dried up. remember YOU put the order in. deal with it or call your credit card company.
                          But California suppliers haven't been dried up... Every other store in the bay is getting guns, often large amounts!! If a customer is looking for a particular gun, Its basically assured that one of the major suppliers, whether it's RSR, GAS, Accusport, sports south, LAN world, or others will have it in stock. The only guns that are getting really hard to find are AR-15's and AK's. Hell, even if the suppliers are out, a dealer can call his rep from the manufacturer, and place an order DIRECTLY from the manufacturer.


                          Originally posted by losgatoscc
                          atf suggests if VA voluntarily is going out of business they are obligated by law to open the doors and release all properties before closing down...along with facilitating at your expense the transfer of a item either pre or current dros, all releases however will be deemed okay if dross cleared, va shall release all properties.
                          So the dealer is allowed to release all of the guns that have been properly DROS'd, but not sell anything new.... Just like they are doing now....

                          Originally posted by losgatoscc
                          the atf does not do any audits they only investigate

                          the doj does audits and unless a active investigation is present, they will tell you. they will not hide it as i spoke with someone earlier about this. if a investigation is under way, doj will have no comment and refer you to atf who has jurisdiction over these events
                          Sorry but you're wrong, the ATF most definitely audits every single FFL holder at least once every three years, which is the life of the license before it can be renewed. Also, ATF audits are unannounced, while the DOJ MIGHT give you notice ahead of time. They are not obligated to at all.
                          Originally posted by Kestryll
                          This guy is a complete and total idiot.
                          /thread.

                          ΦΑ

                          Comment

                          • Steve G
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2005
                            • 1931

                            Originally posted by losgatoscc
                            was coincidentally hanging out with a employee of the atf, he called a associate at the doj and asked him for some info and called his partner in the san jose office to ask some more info. this is what we gathered on speakerphone talking to both departments.



                            asta lavista baby
                            What a bunch of garbage drivel. So you basically know nothing.
                            Last edited by Steve G; 12-04-2012, 4:19 PM.

                            Comment

                            • sully007
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 1612

                              Originally posted by bbogert
                              So this guy is there now then yes? I'm heading there if that's the case - hour drive, but wanna get my hardware outta there.
                              I would email first and set up a time/ date with Paul before going down there.

                              Comment

                              • alfred1222
                                Calguns Addict
                                • Jan 2010
                                • 7331

                                Originally posted by MaceWindu
                                Speculation? NO. I was there I saw the items with MY OWN EYES. This agent was very cool and could care LESS about the SSE. It's 100% LEGAL.

                                That's NOT the issue, its shady business dealings and paperwork issues.
                                Sorry, but call the DOJ and ask if SSE is legal. They will tell you that as soon as you take out the sled and long barrel, you are breaking the law. Now here's the thing; I DON'T CARE what the law says in its text, or what our opinions on Calguns is. Nothing we say here matters when you are being arrested. Sure, Calguns will help get you off, and there will be some good case law coming out of it, but at the end of the day SSE has not been put to the test in courts and does not have any solid legal backing. That means that some poor schmuck is gunna get slapped with this and be held as the test case because the DOJ, AG, and some CHP officer decided that their handgun wasn't legal.

                                Now, with that said, I'm getting into my flame suit.
                                Originally posted by Kestryll
                                This guy is a complete and total idiot.
                                /thread.

                                ΦΑ

                                Comment

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