Interesting HYPOTHETICAL gun question

[joe blow]

Just don't hypothetically get caught with them in a theoretical California, after allegedly committing a felony in Kalifornistein.

It is not worth the risk unless you do it the "legal" way...

You know that we are the only ones that comply with laws... not actual criminals.

I mispoke, what I meant was legally purchase all of the above....that is what I was referring to.

The question still stands, Noone will know I have these things after I legally purchase them?

Thanks

[MalC]

Crap....then I stand corrected, it must only apply to handguns. Thank you for clearing this up.

So it looks like I can "hypothetically" buy as many AK's, AR's and stripped AR lowers as I wish, hypothetically build them at my leisure and noone will ever know I have 'em....that is basically what you guys are are telling me?

Sorry for the stupid questions, I just never asked.

Thanks

The gun store keeps a copy of the DROS form on hand (I think for 10 years?). If requested by a gov't agency, they will give them your info. If they go out of business, the ATF (or some other agency, I don't remember off the top of my head) may scan all of their DROS forms and add them to their registry.

I know people say it doesn't matter since they don't put the serial number of long guns on the DROS form like they do for handguns, but I also know that I have a carbon copy of a "DROS receipt" that definitely has my MN 91/30's S/N on it.

80% lowers are the only way to get a truly paperless AR as far as I know.

[ojisan]

80% build is my suggestion.
100% legal both Federal and State.
No paper trail.
No worries.

[joe blow]

Thanks for the help.

What exactly is an "80%" lower?

Thank you

[MalC]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=299746

It's a lower that hasn't been completed, so it's not a firearm and you can buy it without DROS or any other paperwork. You then take it to a "build party" or anywhere you have access to a drill press or mill, and finish it yourself. Now you have a lower on which to build an AR with no paper trail linking it to you.

[ojisan]

80%...this a partially completed lower (or other type of reciever) that is only machined to 80% of what's needed to work.
It is not a gun in the eyes of the Feds or State, and is legal to sell or purchase without paperwork.
Typically for an AR this would mean the trigger group and magwell areas need to be milled out, all holes drilled, cut-outs made and shaped, usually some threading is also needed.
This work usually cannot be done by the village idiot using a hand drill, hammer and file, it has to be done knowledgably, precisely and correctly using some special tools for everything to work.

[joe blow]

It seems like a very doable thing.

Coincidentally where would one buy a reputable 80% lower?

I read up on it, and it is very interesting. I am mechanically inclined and have a drill press and stuff necessary to complete this. Has anyone attempted to do this?

Once I realized there was a JIG available, it seemed pretty cut and dry.



Thanks for the help

[joe blow]

Double post sorry

[Librarian]

Just to reiterate, since this started with obtaining a firearm out of state, that is illegal unless the transfer goes through a CA FFL to the CA resident.

See the sticky: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503873

[Subotai]

Actually he has two places of residence that he floats in between. AZ and CA.

Then he can give them to his daughter free and clear, if he resides here. If not, like Librarian says, you have to use an FFL.

[todd2968]

That's as clear as mud. What about a dual residency if you were to partially move in AZ and Ca jointly. Could one buy legally anything the want with a AZ driver's license?

[fiddletown]

Every long gun I have purchased has serial numbers that tie it to me....isn't that registering with the state, or am I way off here?

I mispoke, what I meant was legally purchase all of the above....that is what I was referring to.

The question still stands, Noone will know I have these things after I legally purchase them?...

Registration has nothing to do with the issue. The receiver with the serial number is a firearm under federal law. And under federal law, any transfer (except a bequest under a will) of a firearm (including the serial numbered receive) from the resident of one State to a resident of another State must go through an FFL; and if the transferee is a California resident, it will have to be a California FFL. If it doesn't go through a California FFL, it won't be a legal transfer. There is no exception under federal law for interfamilial transfers.

Applicable federal law is at:

1. 18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

   transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...

   
   
2. And 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

   transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides..;

... What about a dual residency if you were to partially move in AZ and Ca jointly. Could one buy legally anything the want with a AZ driver's license?

A driver's license has nothing to do with it. Here's how the ATF defines residency and dual residency:

...State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1.

A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2.

A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3.

A, an alien, travels on vacation or on a business trip to State X. Regardless of the length of time A spends in State X, A does not have a State of residence in State X. This is because A does not have a home in State X at which he has resided for at least 90 days....

[joe blow]

Then he can give them to his daughter free and clear, if he resides here. If not, like Librarian says, you have to use an FFL.

Well, he is retired and owns two homes. He posseses a driver license in each state and jumps between both residences throughout the year.....does that count?

[fiddletown]

Well, he is retired and owns two homes. He posseses a driver license in each state and jumps between both residences throughout the year.....does that count?

See the ATF regulation quoted in post 27. I'm not going to try to figure out what your particular facts are, but you can probably work things out with the text of the regulation.

[joe blow]

Ok point taken.

I am more interested now in getting info from those of you that have taken on the finishing of 80% lowers. Please refer to post #22 for my previous question.

Thanks again for all the help and advice