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All right, dieselpower, I think you're living in an alternate universe.
No, I just understand how the law is utilized in the governments favor...not what you or I want. They choose the how and why...not us.
Who cares what the law says? (Note: I'm not saying "I don't care about the law...") The laws of physics trump everything else. This magazine was not Permanently Altered. There was nothing to alter when it popped out of the magazine waffle maker machine. It was an 11-rd magazine on the day it was born.
100% correct... and the AG agrees with you, the 58 DAs around California agree with you and I agree with you
That is why PERMANENTLY ALTERED is a function of time...NOT THE LAWS OF PHYSICS!!!!.
I drop a dollar bill on the ground and I rule that it is permanent. Am I saying no one has the strength to pick it up? No. I am saying no one has the LEGAL RIGHT TO PICK IT UP... FOREVER. Forever the dollar bill must remain where it is...IT IS PERMANENT. Physics plays no part in the PA exclusion in magazine law.
Yes, I think 11=100 and that's what makes this an interesting question. This "gun wiki" tends to agree:
I can show you a website that says its ok and legal to rape 10 year old boys...
I don't care about a gunwiki. Its written by people who could be wrong...and have been wrong in the past. Its also been right and have changed the law. In the end that's not written by the people who will charge you with a crime.
The AG has already agreed that PA isn't a physical reality... the AG agreed PA (as a set of a physical boundary) was impossible...so when the gunwiki talks about PA and tells you the AG thinks it is...the gunwiki is WRONG. The AG DOESN'T THINK THAT AND HAVE PUBLISHED A DOCUMENT TELLING YOU THEY DO NOT THINK THAT & THE LAW SHOULD NOT BE READ THAT WAY.
I linked the AGs document where they tell you (in easy to read english)...PA is not a set physical thing...its a function of time. Everyone who has common sense can understand that...and that's what the AG has said... all reasonable people understand this. People who are UNREASONABLE do not.
People don't want to use good judgment and logic when reading the law. They want to use unrealistic expectations so they can twist and distort the law...that allows them to break the law and claim the law was impossible to follow. Guess what...not going to work in court.
and again...the gun wiki is correct... 11 = 11teen billion in the eyes of the law...except when 11 was illegal to begin with
The illegal manufactured capacity to 11, doesn't allow the legal manufacture to 12, 13, 14, ....ect ect ect..
Yes, it is an LCM. But no, there is no limiter to remove. Hence one would not be undoing the Permanently Altered steps.
The limiter is in itself what it is...a 10rd magazine. My Glock 17 came with two 10rd magazines right from the factory. I can load 11 in them if I want. That doesnt give me the legal right to undo the manufacturing process that was designed to limit it to 10 and make them hold 17 as a normal Glock magazine would. I can load a Bushmaster 10rd .223 magazine with 11. That doesnt then give me the right to legally weld a longer section to the bottom and install a 30rd spring....BUT if my legal 30rd magazine gets crushed I can completely rebuild it since it was once a true Legal LCM
So once we accept it's an LCM, things would proceed like this:
1) Never put the magazine into a BB gun, that would be a crime
2) Use the magazine until it wears out.
3) Replace parts as necessary. Optionally use parts from a 30-rd repair kit.
4) Continue to use the magazine
I agree to a point. The OP (you) here needs to understand the ramifications of a 10rd magazine holding 11 and that includes the fact he (you) will be charged with manufacturing of a LCM post 1/1/2000 if he (you) does anything to increase he 10rd magazines capacity...even though the 10rd magazine COULD hold 11. The fact a 10rd magazine holds 11 doesnt make it a legal LCM
SPOILER: The part about the 11-rd magazines is a true story. However I purchased them years ago as a noob and immediately epoxied pieces of lead pipe under the followers to make sure they only held 10 rounds. Everyone who imagines there is criminal activity can chill out.
No, I just understand how the law is utilized in the governments favor...not what you or I want. They choose the how and why...not us.
Who cares what the law says? (Note: I'm not saying "I don't care about the law...") The laws of physics trump everything else. This magazine was not Permanently Altered. There was nothing to alter when it popped out of the magazine waffle maker machine. It was an 11-rd magazine on the day it was born.
100% correct... and the AG agrees with you, the 58 DAs around California agree with you and I agree with you
That is why PERMANENTLY ALTERED is a function of time...NOT THE LAWS OF PHYSICS!!!!.
I drop a dollar bill on the ground and I rule that it is permanent. Am I saying no one has the strength to pick it up? No. I am saying no one has the LEGAL RIGHT TO PICK IT UP... FOREVER. Forever the dollar bill must remain where it is...IT IS PERMANENT. Physics plays no part in the PA exclusion in magazine law.
Yes, I think 11=100 and that's what makes this an interesting question. This "gun wiki" tends to agree:
I can show you a website that says its ok and legal to rape 10 year old boys...
I don't care about a gunwiki. Its written by people who could be wrong...and have been wrong in the past. Its also been right and have changed the law. In the end that's not written by the people who will charge you with a crime.
The AG has already agreed that PA isn't a physical reality... the AG agreed PA (as a set of a physical boundary) was impossible...so when the gunwiki talks about PA and tells you the AG thinks it is...the gunwiki is WRONG. The AG DOESN'T THINK THAT AND HAVE PUBLISHED A DOCUMENT TELLING YOU THEY DO NOT THINK THAT & THE LAW SHOULD NOT BE READ THAT WAY.
I linked the AGs document where they tell you (in easy to read english)...PA is not a set physical thing...its a function of time. Everyone who has common sense can understand that...and that's what the AG has said... all reasonable people understand this. People who are UNREASONABLE do not.
People don't want to use good judgment and logic when reading the law. They want to use unrealistic expectations so they can twist and distort the law...that allows them to break the law and claim the law was impossible to follow. Guess what...not going to work in court.
and again...the gun wiki is correct... 11 = 11teen billion in the eyes of the law...except when 11 was illegal to begin with
The illegal manufactured capacity to 11, doesn't allow the legal manufacture to 12, 13, 14, ....ect ect ect..
Yes, it is an LCM. But no, there is no limiter to remove. Hence one would not be undoing the Permanently Altered steps.
The limiter is in itself what it is...a 10rd magazine. My Glock 17 came with two 10rd magazines right from the factory. I can load 11 in them if I want. That doesnt give me the legal right to undo the manufacturing process that was designed to limit it to 10 and make them hold 17 as a normal Glock magazine would. I can load a Bushmaster 10rd .223 magazine with 11. That doesnt then give me the right to legally weld a longer section to the bottom and install a 30rd spring....BUT if my legal 30rd magazine gets crushed I can completely rebuild it since it was once a true Legal LCM
So once we accept it's an LCM, things would proceed like this:
1) Never put the magazine into a BB gun, that would be a crime
2) Use the magazine until it wears out.
3) Replace parts as necessary. Optionally use parts from a 30-rd repair kit.
4) Continue to use the magazine
I agree to a point. The OP (you) here needs to understand the ramifications of a 10rd magazine holding 11 and that includes the fact he (you) will be charged with manufacturing of a LCM post 1/1/2000 if he (you) does anything to increase he 10rd magazines capacity...even though the 10rd magazine COULD hold 11. The fact a 10rd magazine holds 11 doesnt make it a legal LCM
SPOILER: The part about the 11-rd magazines is a true story. However I purchased them years ago as a noob and immediately epoxied pieces of lead pipe under the followers to make sure they only held 10 rounds. Everyone who imagines there is criminal activity can chill out.
Love the spoiler alert but nothing under the law would have imagined you doing anything but following the law. That's whats great about the law and our only savior from it.
The problem with threads like this is they are permanent written statements a DA can use against you.... which means you have waved your rights in the use of these thread.
Its also 100% legal for police to search your electronic devices for evidence against you in court. Your Phone, Pad, Pod, laptop carried with you are just electronic packs of cigarettes and they can open them to view what is inside.
So you have actually admitted to the alteration of a magazine to only hold 10 or less...which by law MUST remain permanent.... so what happens if I can shove an 11th round into your manufactured 10rd magazine?
You know the answer to this. Its obvious and takes no real thought process, its just NOT what people want to hear.... the answer is simple...the 11th round I shoved in COULD BE VIEWED TO turn the 10rd magazine into an illegal LCM and any act that increases that capacity further is manufacturing post 1/1/2000. So I break the law and hand it back to you... this doesn't then give you the legal right to increase that capacity past 11. You must repair the damage.... So just because it holds 11 doesn't mean its a LCM...yet a LCM is defined as a capacity over 10.
Your 10rd magazine you found to hold 11 was NOT a LCM... it was just defective. You could have left it alone and never said anything.
...as for a Fixed magazine firearm... the magazine would need to be loaded while inside said firearm before the Fixed Magazine Firearm to be an AW as per the law. I can load a 30rd magazine and set it next to a Fixed magazine firearm and nothing is illegal. The act of inserting the loaded 11+ magazine makes an AW. Once again...is the magazine defective...or is it a true 11+ magazine?
Does a Fixed Magazine firearm have the capacity to accept more then 10 without a magazine installed..Yes it does, but that's not how the law is viewed. The firearm lacks the capacity to have a DETACHABLE MAGAZINE.
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