ATF Binary Exploding Targets ruling BATFE

[MrEd]

Untill I see an opinion from CADOJ stating that Tanerite is 100 % legal I will stay away from the stuff .
Is it Legal ? possibly , but is it a good idea to use it without clear directions from CADOJ ? I would say no .

It comes down to simple economics , am I willing to risk a small fortune on a manufacturers claim of something being legal ? Am I willing to stake my freedom on it ?

Let us imagine the best case scenario , I would beat the charges , I still end up with a large legal bill and I still went through a very stressfull time . So in the end I can not call that a win .

You might take a different decision for yourself but then do not expect anyone to help you out with the cost of your legal defense .

As to Tanerite being sold in many places in California , I can go buy a Buterfly knife , throwing stars and so on without any difficulty , does that make them legal ?

[stix213]

If you put dry ice and water in a 2 liter soda bottle and leave the cap off, you get fog, no boom. If you put the cap on and seal the 2 liter bottle, you get a boom. Ask yourself why.

You need to reread the law:

Any sealed device containing dry ice (CO2) or other chemically reactive substances assembled for the purpose of causing an explosion by a chemical reaction.

Just because the one example listed requires pressure, doesn't mean that all chemically reactive substances that don't require pressure are exempt.

[jj805]

You need to reread the law:



Just because the one example listed requires pressure, doesn't mean that all chemically reactive substances that don't require pressure are exempt.

Let me ask you this. As noted in my first post, tannerite dose not need to be in a sealed container to go boom. you could easily mix the compounds together and leave the cap off of the container. How dose it fit into that section of the PC? The "sealed" part of the PC is there for a reason.

[sfr292]

I shoot lots and lots of tannerite, granted I'm NOT in California but from my buddies at the ATF the only up coming law is amount you can set off at once, currently being talked about is less than 50lbs....which is ALOT. I normally do 5lbs and less. It's basically the same binary used at the Federal Building in OK, except he added diesel to get more fire effect, similar to Top Shot, a liquid fuel is added to give the visual fire effect. There's many different combos to mix with the stuff to get it to react differently.
End story would be just not to mess with it in CA if you're concerned, play it safe. Even if it's "legal" (which I don't believe it is there), the responding officer might not think so and at the end of the day, his/her opinion is what makes the difference in going home or going to jail without your toys. Just my 2cents.

[pieeater]

also, i want to see some links to the supposed Tannerite arrests in CA. i have been searching for them and asking calguns members to supply me with those so i can follow up on them, and i have not received those. it would be greatly appreciated if somebody could.

Dont hold your breathe, this question is asked in every tannerite thread. Nobody will answer it.

[Sapper96]

legal to use in california

Recently I was out in an area where I had the opportunity to find out the leaglity of tannerite in california. I spoke to a highway patrol agent a county sheriff and a california firefighter after a range fire we wtinessed they asked if we were using tannerite and I said yes and showed them the stuff that i had with me and they said that stuff is cool and wanted to know where they can get some themselves. I told them they could pick up some at the crossroads gun show the next weekend and that i would meet them there. I met them at the booth and they were happy to see me and let me know taht they are interested in purchasing some later in the year and that is completely legal here its covered under the same laws as black powder which means that you can mix up to one pound for personal use the only thing you cant do with it is mix it and transport it. if you use it for personal use your fine its when you try mixing it and selling it that you need to have a license for it. In my line of work as an explosives handler for a blasting company in cali i have to be absolutely 100% sure of my activities as any infractions will ddirectly impact my licensing and i use it on a regular basis.

[RazzB7]

Recently I was out in an area where I had the opportunity to find out the leaglity of tannerite in california. I spoke to a highway patrol agent a county sheriff and a california firefighter after a range fire we wtinessed they asked if we were using tannerite and I said yes and showed them the stuff that i had with me and they said that stuff is cool and wanted to know where they can get some themselves. I told them they could pick up some at the crossroads gun show the next weekend and that i would meet them there. I met them at the booth and they were happy to see me and let me know taht they are interested in purchasing some later in the year and that is completely legal here its covered under the same laws as black powder which means that you can mix up to one pound for personal use the only thing you cant do with it is mix it and transport it. if you use it for personal use your fine its when you try mixing it and selling it that you need to have a license for it. In my line of work as an explosives handler for a blasting company in cali i have to be absolutely 100% sure of my activities as any infractions will ddirectly impact my licensing and i use it on a regular basis.

Interesting first post. Welcome to CalGuns.

[Todosi]

Shows like Top Shot have a certified armorer on set, providing all guns and explosives. That's why they can shoot Glocks with 17 round mags and full auto Thompsons too.

i too have wondered about if they use Tannerite on Top Shot because so many of their exploding targets result in fire and flames, the target stand burning after the explosion. I thought Tannerite would not do that?

Top Shot's targets are NOT Tannerite. They are custom made targets manufactured by a California One Card holder for use on the set.

[jmlivingston]

Recently I was out in an area where I had the opportunity to find out the leaglity of tannerite in california. I spoke to a highway patrol agent a county sheriff and a california firefighter

None of which should be considered authoritative on the law. Knowledgable of? Sure, authoritative? No way.

[wildhawker]

also, i want to see some links to the supposed Tannerite arrests in CA. i have been searching for them and asking calguns members to supply me with those so i can follow up on them, and i have not received those. it would be greatly appreciated if somebody could.

Dont hold your breathe, this question is asked in every tannerite thread. Nobody will answer it.

Sorry, I don't break confidentiality. If the people want to post, they will. Feel free to scour the courts on your own time if you don't believe us.

The burden is on the Tannerite company to prove that their products are legal in California.

Recently I was out in an area where I had the opportunity to find out the leaglity of tannerite in california. I spoke to a highway patrol agent a county sheriff and a california firefighter after a range fire we wtinessed they asked if we were using tannerite and I said yes and showed them the stuff that i had with me and they said that stuff is cool and wanted to know where they can get some themselves. I told them they could pick up some at the crossroads gun show the next weekend and that i would meet them there. I met them at the booth and they were happy to see me and let me know taht they are interested in purchasing some later in the year and that is completely legal here its covered under the same laws as black powder which means that you can mix up to one pound for personal use the only thing you cant do with it is mix it and transport it. if you use it for personal use your fine its when you try mixing it and selling it that you need to have a license for it. In my line of work as an explosives handler for a blasting company in cali i have to be absolutely 100% sure of my activities as any infractions will ddirectly impact my licensing and i use it on a regular basis.

Those people are [almost certainly] not lawyers, and even if they are, they are not your lawyers.

DO NOT EVER ASK FOR, OR RELY ON, A "LEGAL OPINION" FROM A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.

-Brandon

[Decoligny]

Here's the Penal Code section that says possession of an explosive or combination of substances with the intent to make an explosive is a felony...



and here's the section that defines "explosive" as mentioned in CPC 18720...

Well according to PC 16510, my box of strike anywhere matches meet their definition of an explosive.

[pieeater]

Well according to PC 16510, my box of strike anywhere matches meet their definition of an explosive.

I just picked up a couple of gallons of gas for my mower. I guess thats an explosive too.

[Hoop]

Sounds like there is a bunch of FUD out there on the subject.

There has been a calgunner who got convicted for Tannerite. Bwiese mentioned something about it last year. Just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make it 'Fud'.

[pieeater]

There has been a calgunner who got convicted for Tannerite. Bwiese mentioned something about it last year. Just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make it 'Fud'.

Hopefuly one of these years he will come forward and tell his story. Its been sold here for what 12 years now? A bunch of gunshops stock it and its sold at gunshows.

[jj805]

There has been a calgunner who got convicted for Tannerite. Bwiese mentioned something about it last year. Just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make it 'Fud'.

If he was convicted a few years ago, and with the availability of Tannerite today, the and the BATFE letter dated 05/29/12, Do you think he would stand a chance at an appeal?