Why the FBI uses 9mm video.

[NaClAddict]

The controversy over 9mm and 45 even 40 really doesn’t exist if you are making good shots. If you put any of them in the right spot they are affective. Where the difference is how you shoot them and train with them. A 45 is usually a slower rate of fire usually one round verse a 9mm where most fire multiple rounds at a target. 40 loses out because you have a lower capacity then 9 but don’t have the power or confidence of a 45. 9mm does have the advantage of more capacity for missing and bad shots.

You can even apply this to military rifles. 30-06 to 556. One round of 30-06 will be as affective as 3 rounds of 556. So technically a Garand 8 round is as good as 24 rounds of 556 in terms of killing power. So 556 has an advantage of 2 more kills per mag and more ammo for misses and suppressive fire.

.40 has the most kinetic energy. Factor that into your analogy of military rifles and it would be the superior round as capacity is closer to a 9 and stronger than .45. The real truth as to why it’s not more popular is simple. Recoil reflects performance, 40 is a heavy hitting, snappy recoil. It’s hard to control compared to 9 and 45. Recoil combined with less development due to a smaller market and it loses popularity with agencies.

I wish more pure research was done on .40 instead of trying to make 9 or 45 technology work in a completely different ballistic range. Personally, my accuracy isn’t far off with 40 from 9 but I wonder how that would carry over into a combat situation. I started out on a 40 decades ago because an agency I was interested in working for used it. I never wanted to run 40 and 9 because I take people shooting and didn’t want a mix up with ammo and having both would just flare my gun addiction. Maybe I’m just a creature of past habits but my G23 still lives in the bedroom and I have zero doubts about her performance. I honestly believe it’s better than 9 or 45.

[acaligunner]

FBI has a lot of data ~ 9mm ( imo ) is just a general / overall solves potential shootouts - decent stopping power ( yes, I know I know ) with ammo capacity, and for some ~ just the right amount of recoil ( for follow up shots ) 🤔.

No 1 cartridge is the best, what I believe is that the 45acp is a better stopper in a pistol platform, low capacity ( I thought we practiced enough to hit our targets), I guess in some places 8+1 ~ with extra mags are just not practical, and that 230gr hst / gold dot takes a back seat to capacity.

That’s all fine if the data shows that.

As to the 40 cal - it would have split the difference between 9mm and 45 ~ but it’s a snappy recoiling system for some - I find it a bit less accurate than the 9mm / 45, but that’s just me.

I really wonder how much the gel / penetration / and capacity really does figure to someone, when they are faced with a life and death situation.

I’ve heard many times my combat veteran sibling say, they had to fire multiple times to put someone down with 5.56 / 762x39, that’s wasn’t all the time, but according to him it happened.
Yes, in combat bg’s move, take cover, are high and or just have the will to fight as to get away or not wanting to be locked up for life.

I guess, for multiple encounters and to kind of sort things out 9mm is a nice choice, in my mind I want as big as I can carry -

I really don’t know too many criminals that will stay in the fight, when bullets fly and would rather run or leave the scene, but then again there’s a lot of bg’s that don’t give a dang and would rather fight.

Just throwing that out there

[Duck Killer]

.40 has the most kinetic energy. Factor that into your analogy of military rifles and it would be the superior round as capacity is closer to a 9 and stronger than .45. The real truth as to why it’s not more popular is simple. Recoil reflects performance, 40 is a heavy hitting, snappy recoil. It’s hard to control compared to 9 and 45. Recoil combined with less development due to a smaller market and it loses popularity with agencies.

I wish more pure research was done on .40 instead of trying to make 9 or 45 technology work in a completely different ballistic range. Personally, my accuracy isn’t far off with 40 from 9 but I wonder how that would carry over into a combat situation. I started out on a 40 decades ago because an agency I was interested in working for used it. I never wanted to run 40 and 9 because I take people shooting and didn’t want a mix up with ammo and having both would just flare my gun addiction. Maybe I’m just a creature of past habits but my G23 still lives in the bedroom and I have zero doubts about her performance. I honestly believe it’s better than 9 or 45.

It depends on your load with 9mm. 40 is at a max load. Additionally you are going to shoot someone twice with a 40. 10mm or 45 only once. The way people shoot is a huge factor in overall performance

40 was a con. They tested it against weak loads of 9mm. That is why it was dropped. Recoil is an excuse but men were shooting it and even the military special forces drop using it. If it was so great why did everyone adopt it to drop it.

[walmart_ar15]

Current LEO training is to shoot fast till threat stops. This generally means empty one’s mag for 80% of LEO. The world of fire and reassess is long gone. Unfortunately, the same 80% barely spend any time practice, a body hit is all one can hope for. Thus the best tool is a gun with high capacity, low recoil, and just good enough terminal ballistic. A round of 10mm or 45 may have better terminal ballistic but 15 round of 9mm will top that anytime. Besides first round contact center mass is not guaranteed, more follow ups is always needed. Situation like this capacity trumps everything else.

[Barang]

my hd gun is .40 because i'm a bad shot so i rely on a bigger bullet for bigger holes, magazine capacity is better than .45 and it is cheaper so i can afford to go the range more.

[Scotty]

No one shoots a pistol once to stop someone. Unless you shoot someone in the brain, separate the spinal cord, or shoot them in the crotch, they are not dead instantly. Even a shot in the heart, you are still alive for another 20 seconds.

[nick]

Just their thoughts on 9mm.

The Miami shootout
My question would be why didn’t they use H&K mp5’s and a shotgun, instead of going up against BG’s with a rifle and known to be violent.

Why 9mm has improved ( bullet design) with 127 / 135 / 147 grain rounds .
My question would be why not use 45acp with 185gr +P , 230gr +P rounds that have also improved ?
The idea that you may also need firepower - but are you als not with a partner / backup ? If you are going into a more dangerous situation then you’ll be wise to have long guns ..

So more data on what they are going with.

https://youtu.be/ZybcWWu4ddk?si=Uk7__-Y5287HhqjC

Because the findings in their research were that what's required to stop the attacker is:

1. Penetration. Both modern 9mm and .45 can get you the required 12-18" in ballistic gelatin with obstacles.
2. Shot placement. This is where 9mm outperforms .45 because you get more 9mm in a mag, and because more people can shoot 9mm rapidly and accurately than .45.

So .45 offers no advantages over 9mm in this application while having a few disadvantages, namely more weight, fewer round per mag, the need for larger grips, and it's harder for some people to shoot fast and accurately.

[acaligunner]

^
There was a time when the FBI hostage team went with SA 1911’s ~ why because of the accuracy and stopping potential in that system.

That team of officers knew 45acp was better at stopping a threat ( hostage situations ) than the 9mm.

The idea that a 1911 or Sig 220 is harder to hold than a double stack high capacity 9mm, and that new shooters ( who are more adapt to learning a new firearm ( to them ) cannot be taught, and that both the 1911 & Sig 220 would be “ less accurate “ than a polymer pistol, and I would even say that a lesser capacity pistol like the 1911 / s220 with ( 8+1 ) capacity is “ not enough “ is to me debatable; why well because of a shorter knows he “ only “ has 9 rounds of ammo, they ( imo ) will choose their shots better or at least think they had better hit their target with their limited capacity weapon , and avoid the dreaded “ spray and pray “ tactic.

I thought FBI candidates go through a lot of training, and may even have more available training that city LE.

I carry a 9mm because of gangs around this area, but like i stated - usually LE has backup available when going after career criminals.

Isn’t that why the FBI even regrouped its ideas on dealing with dangerous outlaws, and if they are going after more dangerous groups, why bother tackling them with 9mm pistols, isn’t that how they got into the Miami shootout in the 1st place ..