Please Help--Quick Straw Purchase Question

[snobord99]

i read all this, i read all the statutes and laws and my only thought on the matter is if the kid can legally own the gun, who would really care about how it ended up in his hands...seriously would the ATF red flag this kinda transaction and send an agent or two to knock down the fathers door to confront him on this? I'm all for whatever gets it done, no harm no foul and I'm a reserve deputy sheriff myself...my first thought is who has time to nit pick on something like this...i'd rather have that ATF rep doing something more productive with his time.

geez

I totally agree, but the OP's question wasn't "will I be prosecuted?" The question was "is this a straw purchase?"

Just because enforcement is unlikely doesn't make it legal. People jaywalk and smoke weed on the streets of Berkeley ALL the time (at least when I was there) with little enforcement but that doesn't make it legal for one second.

[g_conway]

A "straw" purchase is an attempt to bypass DOJ registration and background check.
As long as all subsequent transfers are done above board in a legal manner, it is not a straw purchase.

[fiddletown]

A "straw" purchase is an attempt to bypass DOJ registration and background check.
As long as all subsequent transfers are done above board in a legal manner, it is not a straw purchase.

You're completely wrong. Why you're completely wrong has been extensive explained by me and several others in this thread.

[Librarian]

A "straw" purchase is an attempt to bypass DOJ registration and background check.
As long as all subsequent transfers are done above board in a legal manner, it is not a straw purchase.

If the first transfer involves lying on the 4473, subsequent transfers 'doing it right' do not correct the initial crime.

[KrazL]

i believe you're confusing gifting with intrafamilial transfer, the process through which vertically linear relatives (father<-->daughter, grandmother<-->son, etc.) can pass ownership of weapons without an FFL or waiting period (handguns require a state form and fee mailed in; long arms require neither). i don't believe an intrafamilial transfer is even required to be a gift.

an uncle can gift a long arm to you just fine; that's what half this thread is about. to my knowledge, the PPT process has no requirement for a sale price.



if a relative of krazl were to purchase a stripped lower, is there something in the law preventing krazl from purchasing the upper assembly, LPK, buttstock kit, etc., used to build it into a functioning weapon prior to a hypothetical transfer of ownership? i know quiet addressed this briefly in post #29 (quoted above), but i'm curious about the legal rationale.

separate issue: that last line isn't entirely correct, is it? assuming the purchase was legitimate and the 4473 is kosher, once it's been made into a rifle, can't the hypothetical transaction between krazl and his brother be a sale at the discretion of the parties involved?

I am old enough to buy and own a rifle(18(no felonys etc-should get through the DOJ with no problems), but assuming my brother had built a rifle with his own money etc, and it was intended for himself, then 1 month later, for whatever reason he doesn't want it anymore, can I buy it from him, for a price of.. lets say 200$ or less.
I said buying because I know that he cannot just gift it to me freely-because of what some say, he is 'lying on the 4473' and/or doing a straw purchase. But because I am buying it from him, and both complete all paperwork required, is this still considered a straw?

[fiddletown]

Nothing wrong with one person giving another a gun as a gift. Of course the transfer must go through an FFL (unless exempt).

[strongpoint]

I am old enough to buy and own a rifle(18(no felonys etc-should get through the DOJ with no problems), but assuming my brother had built a rifle with his own money etc, and it was intended for himself, then 1 month later, for whatever reason he doesn't want it anymore, can I buy it from him, for a price of.. lets say 200$ or less.
I said buying because I know that he cannot just gift it to me freely-because of what some say, he is 'lying on the 4473' and/or doing a straw purchase. But because I am buying it from him, and both complete all paperwork required, is this still considered a straw?

you're still misreading this a little bit (again). as fiddletown points out, it CAN be a gift -- the fact that the transaction is done without cost doesn't affect the legality of the transfer or make it a straw purchase.

a straw purchase has to do with the intent at the time of purchase of (in this case) the stripped lower.

[snobord99]

I am old enough to buy and own a rifle(18(no felonys etc-should get through the DOJ with no problems), but assuming my brother had built a rifle with his own money etc, and it was intended for himself, then 1 month later, for whatever reason he doesn't want it anymore, can I buy it from him, for a price of.. lets say 200$ or less.
I said buying because I know that he cannot just gift it to me freely-because of what some say, he is 'lying on the 4473' and/or doing a straw purchase. But because I am buying it from him, and both complete all paperwork required, is this still considered a straw?

That alone would be enough to say no straw purchase. He could gift it to you or sell it to you after that (whatever you two decide on). Remember, the only question is whether he intended it to be for himself (unless it was meant as a gift) when he filled out that 4473 and said that he was the actual buyer. If he intended on buying it for himself, he didn't lie on the form and was not acting as a straw purchaser. Legally, it doesn't matter if he changed his mind a minute after, a month after, or a year after; what matters is he didn't buy it with no intent to keep it (again, assuming not a gift).

[anthonyca]

This thread shows why one should never talk to law enforcement,'especially the Feds.

I agree with Fiddletown, Snobird and Librarian. Some in this thread would have talked themselves into federal prison. Have fun being a non citizen after becoming a federal felon.

Someone commited a major error by trying to use common sense when it comes to gun laws.

[sparrow]

Someone commited a major error by trying to use common sense when it comes to gun laws.

[SocomM4]

Nevermind.

[maidendeth13]

So basically he could buy it and give it to me... but I can't reimburse him for it.

Seems pretty unlikely that he'd be interested in that but who knows.

One last question that I've been wondering about for awhile (before this even came up)

When buying something as a gift what does one mark as the answer to Question 1? I don't remember there being anything relating to gifting on the form but I did know there were provisions to allow for gifting within the legal code...

Thanks for the help.

[fiddletown]

...When buying something as a gift what does one mark as the answer to Question 1? I don't remember there being anything relating to gifting on the form but I did know there were provisions to allow for gifting within the legal code...

When buying a gun as a gift, one answers "yes" to "are you the actual buyer."

Here are the instructions for that queston on the 4473 itself (under IMPORTANT NOITCES):

[Yemff]

So basically he could buy it and give it to me... but I can't reimburse him for it.

Seems pretty unlikely that he'd be interested in that but who knows.

One last question that I've been wondering about for awhile (before this even came up)

When buying something as a gift what does one mark as the answer to Question 1? I don't remember there being anything relating to gifting on the form but I did know there were provisions to allow for gifting within the legal code...

Thanks for the help.

He can buy it for himself, and then sell it to you. As long as your not giving him money to buy it, in my opinion it isn't a straw purchase.

[snobord99]

He can buy it for himself, and then sell it to you. As long as your not giving him money to buy it, in my opinion it isn't a straw purchase.

I think it's cute so many people think it makes a difference legally if you give them the money before or after the purchase when there was a prearranged agreement.

"I didn't hire him to kill anyone officer. Well, yea, I said I'd pay him, but I hadn't given him the money yet so he decided to kill my wife on his own."