Please Help--Quick Straw Purchase Question

[maidendeth13]

Hi,

I know this has been addressed before but I could not find the info I needed when I tried to .

I am 22 and want to buy a handgun from a private seller in the marketplace. Only problem is that he is about 4 hours south of me in Orange County (I'm in SLO). It's an old S&W so it cannot be shipped (IIRC) and I don't want to pay for shipping and receiving as it would make it unaffordable for me..

Can I have my dad purchase this for me, wait his 10 days pick up the gun, and then transfer it between him and myself next time he visits me up here? Or is this considered a straw purchase. I know there are provisions for gifting but somewhere I read that in order for it to be a gift the recipient must not know about it? Seems like FUD to me but seeing as this is CA I figure anything is possible....

Anyways sorry for hitting this topic again , but everything I found so far has been related to children under the age of 21 who legally can't buy the handgun themselves, or to actual gifts where the recipient does not know about the purchase.

Please let me know,

Thank you in advance!

[HighLander51]

Assuming your dad has his HSC card or exemption, he can buy any gun he wants. If it doesn't work for him, he can sell it to you (HSC or exemption).

[fiddletown]

...Can I have my dad purchase this for me, wait his 10 days pick up the gun, and then transfer it between him and myself next time he visits me up here? Or is this considered a straw purchase. ...

Looks like a good chance that ATF would consider it a straw purchase.

Here's how ATF sees things (Federal Firearms Regulation Reference Guide, 2005, at page 165 (emphasis added)):

...Questions have arisen concerning the lawfulness of firearms purchases from licensees by persons who use a "straw purchaser" (another person) to acquire the firearms. Specifically, the actual buyer uses the straw purchaser to execute the Form 4473 purporting to show that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser of the firearm. In some instances, a straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm. That is to say, the actual purchaser is a felon or is within one of the other prohibited categories of persons who may not lawfully acquire firearms or is a resident of a State other than that in which the licensee's business premises is located. Because of his or her disability, the person uses a straw purchaser who is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm from the licensee. In other instances, neither the straw purchaser nor the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm.

In both instances, the straw purchaser violates Federal law by making false statements on Form 4473 to the licensee with respect to the identity of the actual purchaser of the firearm, as well as the actual purchaser's residence address and date of birth. The actual purchaser who utilized the straw purchaser to acquire a firearm has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused the making of the false statements. The licensee selling the firearm under these circumstances also violates Federal law if the licensee is aware of the false statements on the form. It is immaterial that the actual purchaser and the straw purchaser are residents of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, are not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms, and could have lawfully purchased firearms...

The offense is violation of 18 USC 922(a)(6), making a false statement on the 4473 (specifically about who is the actual buyer).

Who is the actual purchaser is a question of intent. Who supplies the money is one fact from which intent might be inferred. But if you are buying the gun by arrangement on behalf of another person (i. e., as the agent or proxy of the other person), and even if you are advancing your own money to pay the price, you are not the actual buyer -- your principal is. (On the other hand, it is legal to buy someone a gun as a gift. However, you've already said on the Internet for everyone in the world with Internet access to see, that you would be having your father buy the gun on your behalf.)

Contrary to popular opinion, prosecutors convince a jury of a defendant's intent all the time. Intent is an element of many crimes and can frequently be inferred from actions surrounding an event or transaction, including timing. And sometimes statements made in letters, notes or even posts in an Internet forum can successfully be used as evidence of intent. (And there are numerous exceptions to the hearsay rule that would generally allow such statements to be used as evidence.)

How old is the Smith & Wesson you want. If it was made more than 50 years ago, it's exempt from the roster. If it's a semi-auto, you might be able to arrange a temporary single shot conversion for the exemption, or if it's a revolver, I think there's a temporary single action conversion possible for that exemption. Both have been discussed on this board, so you should do a search.

Otherwise, you'd probably be better off finding a gun you want closer to home.

[davek8s]

you could put your dad in contact with the seller. maybe the old man will like it and buy it. but after a month of owning it, he could decide it just wasn't the right pistol for him. he could offer to sell it to you and keep it in the family. seems normal to me, i buy and sell guns all the time.

[LeadTalker]

Hit dad up to front you a little extra to cover the shipping, etc. so you are the recipient. Sure beats ATF headaches.

[sparrow]

[fiddletown]

...You ask your father to purchase and hold until he comes to visit then you transfer to your name. as long as the gun is dros to you in the end before you take possession, sounds legit to me. ...

ATF would not agree. See post 3.

And I'm curious. What are your qualifications backing up your opinion? Do you have some evidence to support it? Are you a lawyer?

[SocomM4]

Dont need a lawyer for a dad to buy his son a pistol . Relax. My backup is common sense.

Only thing that screwed you is asking the question.

Hey can I have my dad buy me this cause it's too far= bad.
Hey can my dad give me any pistol that's legal in this state= good.

This "Straw Purchase" stuff is getting out of control.

[fiddletown]

Dont need a lawyer for a dad to buy his son a pistol . Relax. My backup is common sense...

I am a lawyer, and your common sense has failed.

It's no problem for a dad to buy a son a gun as a gift. Whether or not that's what's going on here is questionable given the OP's first post.

Anyway, I am relaxed because it won't be my problem.

[bandook]

ATF would not agree. See post 3.

And I'm curious. What are your qualifications backing up your opinion? Do you have some evidence to support it? Are you a lawyer?

I think you may have this wrong. It is not a straw purchase until the firearm is acquired by the son. If said transfer to son is accompanied with the appropriate paperwork, it would not be a straw purchase.

[fiddletown]

I think you may have this wrong. It is not a straw purchase until the firearm is acquired by the son. If said transfer to son is accompanied with the appropriate paperwork, it would not be a straw purchase.

That is incorrect. See post 3 for what the ATF says about it.

[NotEnufGarage]

Why don't you just go visit your dad a couple times. You don't have to pick it up after 10 days. You can make arrangements with the FFL to store it a few more days for you, if need be.

My dad passed away 8 years ago. I wish now that I'd made the time a little more often to see him when I had the chance.

[fiddletown]

Why don't you just go visit your dad a couple times. You don't have to pick it up after 10 days. You can make arrangements with the FFL to store it a few more days for you, if need be.

My dad passed away 8 years ago. I wish now that I'd made the time a little more often to see him when I had the chance.

A really great idea.

Four hours is a long way to drive to pick up a gun. But it's not too long a drive to visit one's father and spend some time with him. And it might make buying the gun something extra special to remember.

[fiddletown]

...This "Straw Purchase" stuff is getting out of control.

I won't argue with that. It makes life difficult, and it's hard to understand. But we're stuck with the law as it is unless we can get things changed.

...My backup is common sense...

Common sense? Anything like Diane Feinstein's common sense gun control? Common sense isn't necessarily all that reliable.

[SocomM4]

Still think your just being an alarmist. It's a gift .