TSA Carry On Weapons Confiscation...

[wayneinFL]

I want to see a 36 year old soccer mom with an entitlement mentality get an M16A2 stock slapped upside her head when she complains about searches.

Oh, we have an entitlement mentality. But you're entitled to a multi-billion dollar bureaucracy, because you're too chicken to travel without it?

I want what Israel has. Take a trip there are and you will see what security at an airport SHOULD BE like. Every passenger is interviewed at least 3 times. Any Security Agent who fails to spot a "problem" is terminated on the spot. They test every Agent 6 times a year.

Then go live in Israel. I'll stay in America, what's left of it.

Life isn't safe. Deal with it.

That pretty much sums up my opinion on the issue. You guys still drive even though we lose about 40,000 people on the road every year. That's the equivalent of nine 9/11 attacks a year. You want Marines beating the crap out of people for being disrespectful at the airport. Why aren't you clamoring for Marines beating the crap out of people for speeding?

[chim-chim7]

^^^ so your ok then with a few landmarks lost from terrorism? Last pro terror group I heard of was the Taliban.

[chim-chim7]

When was the last time auto accidents were caused by acts of terror. Accidents are accidents, hijacking a plane and running it into the White House is deliberate.

[dieselpower]

Oh, we have an entitlement mentality. But you're entitled to a multi-billion dollar bureaucracy, because you're too chicken to travel without it?

I don't travel on aircraft any more...I just don't want one getting flown into my building because you didn't want to be searched...which lead to a terrorist sneaking a bomb or weapon on-board.


Then go live in Israel. I'll stay in America, what's left of it.

I don't want to live in Israel, I want people to understand there are other countries with active terrorist killing people EVERYDAY and SUICIDE BOMBING them every year...yet their airports run smooth as silk...why?...because the people who run the airport security don't put up with egotistical BS from the people who CHOOSE to enter the airport.


That pretty much sums up my opinion on the issue. You guys still drive even though we lose about 40,000 people on the road every year. That's the equivalent of nine 9/11 attacks a year. You want Marines beating the crap out of people for being disrespectful at the airport. Why aren't you clamoring for Marines beating the crap out of people for speeding?

I have no comment on the speeding thing...

[rimfire78]

Most people who fear their own lack of ability, morality, bravery etc. will go to great lengths to disguise it.
They mask their short comings by railing against other peoples access to that which would expose their own inadequacies or fears.
Freedom by it's nature is unpredictable and just too scary a proposition for some.
They'll never tell you that though.

[chim-chim7]

Usually people who are afraid of being searched per company guidelines, have something to hide. Your going to a airport, you know exactly what to expect.

[wayneinFL]

Dieselpower, it's true I CHOSE to fly to work this week, just as you CHOSE to drive to work this morning, CHOSE to live in California, CHOSE your job, etc. We all make tradeoffs, based on cost, risks, opportunities, etc.

(We both traded off safety for the commute to work this morning on a California highway. We both traded off a lot more safety than we would trade off by flying- a point that's gone over some heads in several posts.)


I chose to fly to CA, because in the short term, I chose to trade off my right to carry, right to possess a Colt AR, right to possess a 15 round mag, right to unreasonable search to keep a $60K a year job with 15 years' seniority for a few more months.

While I've been here, I've heard a lot of "egotistical BS" from impudent gun owners with an "entitlement mentality" who feel they're entitled to firearms rights, even though they CHOSE to live in a state that restricts those rights. I could follow a lot of other people in freer states and say that you deserve to live under those restrictions because you CHOSE to live in a commie state that restricts your rights. But I don't. I feel these are inherent rights that all men deserve.

To digress a little, I sense a certain amount of hypocrisy in a lot of people who want their rights protected but favor restrictions against rights that they do not intend to exercise. For example, the guy who values his right to smoke pot, but feels another's right to carry would endanger his safety and should be restricted. Or the guy who values his right to own a Colt AR-15, but feels another's right to travel without unreasonable search would endanger his safety and should be restricted. Or the guy who values his right to marry another man, but feels another's right to own a 15 rd. mag would endanger his safety and should be restricted.

I don't always understand why some people want the right to do whatever it is they want to do, but I'd rather err on the side of freedom despite some (perceived or real) risk in safety.

[1911_sfca]

Flew out to Atlanta and back over the last couple days. The amazing thing is that TSA / private security co's (like Convenant in SF) are trained to try and convince you you shouldn't be doing a pat-down.

Covenant: "Why didn't you want to go through the machine?"
Me: "I fly 120k miles per year, I don't need any more radiation."
Covenant: "Did you know it's just millimeter waves?"
Me: "Yes. That means that it's radiation.. with 1mm wavelength."
Covenant: Silent (didn't get briefed on that response).

A similar type of conversation happens *every time* I opt out.

[wayneinFL]

BTW, for the people who really think they're trading liberty for safety-

http://www.infowars.com/man-demonstrates-why-tsa-body-scanners-are-worthless-for-security-purposes/

I don't believe in everything this guys says, but he does show a heck of a gap in the system.

[fquinonez]

I love it when people bring Israel into the conversation. Israel also uses profiling by their security personel in the airports. Here in the USA, TSA is more likely to stop a gray haired grandmother than a middle eastern person due to political correctness. I have also seen women with cancer asked (told) to remove their hats, head scarves, or beanies so the TSA agent can see their chemo induced bald head, but they allow women with burkas and men with turbans through without requiring them to remove the headgear. If you want to have Israeli type security, bring it! However, the poliytical correctness of America will never allow it.

[chim-chim7]

Some of you need reminding. Those who CHOOSE to ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

To WAYNEINFL: you said "40,000 die is car accidents in one year, that's like 9 9-11's.
If 9-11-01 happened every day for a year the figure would be 1,028,935 deaths
40,000 accident deaths per year is 109.5 a day. 2,819 people were murdered as the result of the attack.





Total number murdered in attacks (official figure as of 9/5/02): 2,819


• Number of firefighters and paramedics killed: 343


• Number of NYPD officers: 23


• Number of Port Authority police officers: 37


• Number of WTC companies that lost people: 60


• Number of employees who died in Tower One: 1,402


• Number of employees who died in Tower Two: 614


• Number of employees lost at Cantor Fitzgerald: 658


• Number of U.S. troops killed in Operation Enduring Freedom: 22


• Number of nations whose citizens were killed in attacks: 115


• Ratio of men to women who died: 3:1


• Age of the greatest number who died: between 35 and 39


• Bodies found "intact": 289


• Body parts found: 19,858


• Number of families who got no remains: 1,717


• Estimated units of blood donated to the New York Blood Center: 36,000


• Total units of donated blood actually used: 258


• Number of people who lost a spouse or partner in the attacks: 1,609


• Estimated number of children who lost a parent: 3,051


• Percentage of Americans who knew someone hurt or killed in the attacks: 20


• FDNY retirements, January–July 2001: 274


• FDNY retirements, January–July 2002: 661


• Number of firefighters on leave for respiratory problems by January 2002: 300


• Number of funerals attended by Rudy Giuliani in 2001: 200


• Number of FDNY vehicles destroyed: 98


• Tons of debris removed from site: 1,506,124


• Days fires continued to burn after the attack: 99


• Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100


• Days the New York Stock Exchange was closed: 6


• Point drop in the Dow Jones industrial average when the NYSE reopened: 684.81


• Days after 9/11 that the U.S. began bombing Afghanistan: 26


• Total number of hate crimes reported to the Council on American-Islamic Relations nationwide since 9/11: 1,714


• Economic loss to New York in month following the attacks: $105 billion


• Estimated cost of cleanup: $600 million


• Total FEMA money spent on the emergency: $970 million


• Estimated amount donated to 9/11 charities: $1.4 billion


• Estimated amount of insurance paid worldwide related to 9/11: $40.2 billion


• Estimated amount of money needed to overhaul lower-Manhattan subways: $7.5 billion


• Amount of money recently granted by U.S. government to overhaul lower-Manhattan subways: $4.55 billion


• Estimated amount of money raised for funds dedicated to NYPD and FDNY families: $500 million


• Percentage of total charity money raised going to FDNY and NYPD families: 25


• Average benefit already received by each FDNY and NYPD widow: $1 million


• Percentage increase in law-school applications from 2001 to 2002: 17.9


• Percentage increase in Peace Corps applications from 2001 to 2002: 40


• Percentage increase in CIA applications from 2001 to 2002: 50


• Number of songs Clear Channel Radio considered "inappropriate" to play after 9/11: 150


• Number of mentions of 9/11 at the Oscars: 26


• Apartments in lower Manhattan eligible for asbestos cleanup: 30,000


• Number of apartments whose residents have requested cleanup and testing: 4,110


• Number of Americans who changed their 2001 holiday-travel plans from plane to train or car: 1.4 million


• Estimated number of New Yorkers suffering from post-traumatic-stress disorder as a result of 9/11: 422,000

[Yuppicide]

Number of songs Clear Channel Radio considered "inappropriate" to play after 9/11: 150

How very LAME of them! I'd love to see that list....

[chim-chim7]

Number of songs Clear Channel Radio considered "inappropriate" to play after 9/11: 150

How very LAME of them! I'd love to see that list....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Clear_Channel_memorandum

[Ibefuz]

People say that they want the airlines to be responsible for security so they have the ability to "pay" for unsatisfactory service to the passenger.....if another attack was to happen under the airline responsible security what dollar amount would they pay out to the families that lost loved ones? Passengers that got injured? What is the going compensation amount for a dead person these days?

The TSA is by nowhere near perfect, and for sure could be a million times better, but if the airlines ran security, no passenger would ever have any complaints because the airline bends like no other to accommodate people. Throw your bags and make a scene with a ticket agent, you just got the free upgrade to first class to shut you up. Bag over weight? Complain and yell, now its checked for free and you get free drink coupons. Airline run security is not a good idea

[dieselpower]

Dieselpower, it's true I CHOSE to fly to work this week, just as you CHOSE to drive to work this morning, CHOSE to live in California, CHOSE your job, etc. We all make tradeoffs, based on cost, risks, opportunities, etc.

(We both traded off safety for the commute to work this morning on a California highway. We both traded off a lot more safety than we would trade off by flying- a point that's gone over some heads in several posts.)


I chose to fly to CA, because in the short term, I chose to trade off my right to carry, right to possess a Colt AR, right to possess a 15 round mag, right to unreasonable search to keep a $60K a year job with 15 years' seniority for a few more months.

While I've been here, I've heard a lot of "egotistical BS" from impudent gun owners with an "entitlement mentality" who feel they're entitled to firearms rights, even though they CHOSE to live in a state that restricts those rights. I could follow a lot of other people in freer states and say that you deserve to live under those restrictions because you CHOSE to live in a commie state that restricts your rights. But I don't. I feel these are inherent rights that all men deserve.

To digress a little, I sense a certain amount of hypocrisy in a lot of people who want their rights protected but favor restrictions against rights that they do not intend to exercise. For example, the guy who values his right to smoke pot, but feels another's right to carry would endanger his safety and should be restricted. Or the guy who values his right to own a Colt AR-15, but feels another's right to travel without unreasonable search would endanger his safety and should be restricted. Or the guy who values his right to marry another man, but feels another's right to own a 15 rd. mag would endanger his safety and should be restricted.

I don't always understand why some people want the right to do whatever it is they want to do, but I'd rather err on the side of freedom despite some (perceived or real) risk in safety.

Dude, it has nothing to do with safe committing to work or even how safe it is to drive across the country...or even how much crime takes place.

Our country is under attack. To this day, they are still planning and trying to attack...you are forgetting that. The enemy is smart enough to understand our infrastructure. They know if they continue to attack it, our economy will collapse. The only way to stop this is through an active security against these forms of attack.

My problem in this thread is if I were to "get real" with the readers, I get banned. I have been warned against doing it, Kes has banned me from two forums for speaking in real world non-fantasy with people. I know if I was to start posting real world stuff, it would upset readers, it could be deemed inappropriate and bam...I am banned from yet another forum. I enjoy most debates and the share of information here so I need to pay attention to Kes's rules.

You just need to understand our country is what it is due to it's infrastucture...airport, natural gas, electrical grid, economy, water treatment. Thats all I am going to say...we need an active and aggressive security plan guarding them.

I want to assume you were too young or very young during the 9-11 years. I actually hope you are in your early 20s because if you are over 30 and can't remember the aftermath of 9-11 you need to re-educate yourself. Then again it brings me back to what I said right after 9-11 (that got a room full of people pissed at me....) America has a short term memory, in less than a year, [after 9-11] our inconvenience will be more important than protecting the country from attack.

My son and daughter are in their mid 20s. They remember 9-11, but I expect them to NOT understand it....as many people do not understand or choose not to understand what happened...