No hollowpoints in war?

[Bikertrash]

President Jimmy Carter banned flamethrowers for use in battle.

[Army]

Geez. We kill, period.

Combat does not give you the luxury of deciding who gets wounded, and who gets a 1000lb JDAM up their arse.

The military did not spend millions of dollars and years of research on a devastatingly effective killing bullet, just to have has try to wound the enemy. We kill because wounded Soldiers can still shoot back and throw grenades. A few months at Basic Training or Boot Camp is NOT spent learning how to be nice to the bad guy, nor how to trick him. Soldiers learn to kill and break things.

Also: You must actually hit the target with a .50 cal. The bullet passing close by does NOT do any damage to tissue or lung capacity nor will it blind you. It will make a nasty ringing in the ears from the sonic crack, but that's all.

I have no idea how these silly rumors still live on, when on their surface they are stupid at best, and defy logic at worst.

[Delta-9]

If soldiers are to wound the enemy, give them .22 to play with

[monk]

Personally, I think it's become more about less mess no? Using FMJ is gives a cleaner thru and thru, meaning less "mess" to deal with. I mean, you guys who are in war, with all the crap you see, you really wanna see heads blown up because of HPs?

Or is there no difference given the rounds currently used?

[Iskra]

Watch http://www.theboxotruth.com/ and you'll see that any clothing as heavy as denim can fill up the hollow point and turn it into a slower-moving version of hardball.

On the 2-way range, I'd prefer NOT to be shooting HPs.

[m03]

If soldiers are to wound the enemy, give them .22 to play with

We already did.

[Josh3239]

Watch http://www.theboxotruth.com/ and you'll see that any clothing as heavy as denim can fill up the hollow point and turn it into a slower-moving version of hardball.

On the 2-way range, I'd prefer NOT to be shooting HPs.

In self defense scenarios hollow points have proven to be extremely effective.

Are hollow points full proof that they will always expand properly? No of course not. But millions of dollars of research isn't being poured into hollow points because they are unreliable bullets that will just anger your attacker. Bullet designs are getting better and better quickly and the "issue" of improperly expanded hollow points is going away. That is another reason why I like the Hornady Critical Defense, the polymer insert is supposed to make expansion reliable and keep foreign matter from entering the hollow point.

Geez. We kill, period.

Combat does not give you the luxury of deciding who gets wounded, and who gets a 1000lb JDAM up their arse.

The military did not spend millions of dollars and years of research on a devastatingly effective killing bullet, just to have has try to wound the enemy. We kill because wounded Soldiers can still shoot back and throw grenades. A few months at Basic Training or Boot Camp is NOT spent learning how to be nice to the bad guy, nor how to trick him. Soldiers learn to kill and break things.

I have no idea how these silly rumors still live on, when on their surface they are stupid at best, and defy logic at worst.

Ya, it is a bit funny how some people think in war you can just patiently choose a part of the body to damage without killing them and then expect to win a war based on WIAs instead of KIAs. The military is and always has trained to kill. That is there point and that is how one wins wars.

[emptybottle151]

That's funny, I was issued 120 rnds of hollow points in afgahn 08.

[Iskra]

In self defense scenarios hollow points have proven to be extremely effective.

Are hollow points full proof that they will always expand properly? No of course not. But millions of dollars of research isn't being poured into hollow points because they are unreliable bullets that will just anger your attacker. Bullet designs are getting better and better quickly and the "issue" of improperly expanded hollow points is going away. That is another reason why I like the Hornady Critical Defense, the polymer insert is supposed to make expansion reliable and keep foreign matter from entering the hollow point.

Agreed - "In self defense scenarios"

Shooting a guy in a t-shirt from 10 yards with a 9mm pistol is not the same as shooting a guy wearing a heavy coat (at least) from 50 yards+ with a rifle.

[bubbapug1]

They are only illegal for combatants who have signed the hague convention rules and protocals.

[Josh3239]

Agreed - "In self defense scenarios"

Shooting a guy in a t-shirt from 10 yards with a 9mm pistol is not the same as shooting a guy wearing a heavy coat (at least) from 50 yards+ with a rifle.

With regard to hollow point, then what is the difference? If a hollow point fails to properly expand it should perform no different than a FMJ and go through the target without expansion. It isn't like its just gonna bounce off a coat because it didn't expand.

I am sure I am misreading but it sure sounds like your are saying that a pistol caliber HP will not reliable expand or even punch through a heavy coat at 50+ yards?

They are only illegal for combatants who have signed the geneva convention rules and protocals. All others can do as they please, and they do, like we did in the recent past.

Come real war all rules are off, like civil wars when governments can't mediate the differences between the classes, tribes, and religous fractions, and issues are resolved in the streets. Like Libya...and soon...the USA.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

If you had read your own link you'd know the Geneva Conventions have less to nothing to do with banned ammunition/weapons and more to do with the treatment of wounded and captured soldiers and civilians.

[7x57]

That's funny, I was issued 120 rnds of hollow points in afgahn 08.

Non-expanding hollow-point match bullets, I'd guess.

7x57

[PressCheck]

Google the subject. What I recall is the purpose was not really to kill the enemy soldier, just get them out of commission. Even better was if two other enemy soldiers were caught up helping one that was wounded, which caused 3 to be out of the fight. Wounding the enemy is more costly to the other side than a kill.

Ding Ding Ding Ding We Have a clear winner.

[ubet]

Wounding the enemy is more costly to the other side than a kill.

^^^THIS^^^ FTW!

[bubbapug1]

Josh3239, I stand corrected, and apologize for the sloppy research and faulty assumptions. Sorry.

Here it is...from wikipedia...

The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibits the use in international warfare of bullets which easily expand or flatten in the body, giving as example a bullet with a jacket with incisions or one that does not fully cover the core.[14] This is often incorrectly believed to be prohibited in the Geneva Conventions, but it significantly predates those conventions, and is in fact a continuance of the Declaration of St Petersburg in 1868, which banned exploding projectiles of less than 400 grams.