Need some input...

[madbretbeyondthunderdome]

So here is my situation. I made a deal with a guy on here to trade my old smith and wesson model 28-2 towards an AR. We agreed that I would pay $550 cash, plus my pistol and some ammo for his AR. Drove 3 hours to meet him and when I arrived, he had a problem with his license not being current so they would not transfer for us. I was disappointed but stuff happens out of our control sometimes. Not the end of the world. So he apologized profusely and we decided that I would give him the cash and ammo for the upper and shook hands to meet back up when he was ready to trade my pistol straight across for his complete lower.

Now here is where my problem lies. I am a noob to AR's. This is/was my first ar rifle and I made the mistake of telling him this the night before we met up. I have however read up about them and am not completely in the dark. I was told that the upper receiver was a colt and the bcg was supposed to be dpms. I got home with the upper and realized it was not a colt, but a DSA upper. Also, the bcg is unmarked on the carrier as well as the bolt which leads me to believe that it is just a cheap one and not a dpms, not to mention that it isn't staked AT ALL! Not that dpms bcgs are that expensive anyhow.

So, I am a man of my word. I told this guy that in a couple of weeks, we would finish up our deal but I feel like I was taken advantage of and don't know that I want to honor what we agreed upon because of what I just stated. So, ultimately, I paid about $650 for this upper.

Please let me know what you all think. I don't want to be a jerk, but I feel like I got screwed to an extent and honestly lucked out by him not being able to do the transfer. I know DSA is a fine brand, but lying about what it actually is is not acceptable. Below is the item in question...

Please give opinions. Thanks.

P.S. My smith is from 1966 or 67 and is in solid 85% condition or better. I feel like it's worth an easy $500 and it seems they are only getting more valuable.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=479330

[Rouge Recon]

What the dillio philthy209? What say you to this?

[Coyotegunner]

Trade issues

I have buying/trading -guns/parts for about 36 years.Even from respectable shops,it is buyer beware.Sometimes you are getting what the salesman prefers or what he has left in stock.I try to see where the other person is coming from.In the end I would prefer to be able to look the same person in the face 2 weeks after the deal.Without seeing your upper you already purchased in person,and I assume you have not shot it yet to say if it works good.Try to get out and shoot it.Talk is cheap on the sellers part,regardless of name brands.I have a upper that is mismatch parts,but it is a solid keeping this one shooter.As far as your deal,you are still out a lower.Find a friends lower to try it on.I would hang onto your S&W or trade someone else.You are already set up for stress in this deal.

[Coyotegunner]

Trade issues

I looked at the picture you had of it.If the upper shoots,the money was well spent.PM sent as well

[madbretbeyondthunderdome]

The only thing holding me to this deal is my own good word. It isn't that I'm not happy with the upper so much as I don't like the dishonesty that has came with it. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet and I do hope it shoots as good as he says. Am I correct that a DPMS bcg should have markings to designate as such, or do some of them come without markings? If they are all supposed to have a proof mark, then I feel like I owe him nothing but a bad attitude for not being straight with me. As far as I can tell, the barrel on the upper is an E. R. Shaw dissapator from Model 1 sales and I assume the bcg came from them too. And the little bit of reading that I've done suggests that the bcg from them are the one part they sell to stay away from.

[dieselpower]

18" Match grade 5.56 stainless barrel
colt M4 upper

No such thing. It might have been a upper receiver from a Colt, without the Colt M4 barrel, Without the Colt M4 hand guards and some added rails but thats not a Colt M4 upper.... not even close. Now you say the upper by itself isnt even a Colt.

So can I promise to sell you the Golden Gate Bridge for $100 and hand you a wooden stick?

Drop out of the "extra" deal.

[Rob454]

You did get screwed. The item you expected to trade for is not as described. IMO deal should of never gone through. UNLESS the item is EXACTLY as described with the exact parts on the gun that were specified you have every right to walk away without any remorse. While i can completely appreciate your desire to keep your word that goes out the window when the trade is not what it shoudl be. Keep your word if the trade is on the level otherwise you have no obligation to keep your word.

[4DSJW]

Tell the seller that you noticed the upper was not the one he described for sale (make sure you have his description in writing). Tell him you understand it must have been an unfortunate accidental mixup. Let him know that you expect to receive the upper and the lower that was described for sale.

If he says he made a mistake and will bring the correct items then you are good to go.

If he says he doesn't have the correct items, or some other excuse, tell him the deal is off and you will give him back his upper for your revolver.

Either way you are keeping your word on the agreed upon deal.

Good Luck with this!

[Rouge Recon]

Coyote, you're giving pretty bad advise. Your essentially asking him to test the product and if it shoots then just be happy it shoots. It's not right to blame it on inexperience on the buyers part. It's obvious the seller isn't obligated to do anything at this point. But there are still moral issues at play here.

Madbret, If you can't manage to get a refund from the seller but are still unhappy with the outcome, consider selling it and try to recoup the difference to pay for something you'll be happy with.

[madbretbeyondthunderdome]

Coyote, you're giving pretty bad advise. Your essentially asking him to test the product and if it shoots then just be happy it shoots. It's not right to blame it on inexperience on the buyers part. It's obvious the seller isn't obligated to do anything at this point. But there are still moral issues at play here.

Madbret, If you can't manage to get a refund from the seller but are still unhappy with the outcome, consider selling it and try to recoup the difference to pay for something you'll be happy with.

Truth be told, I'm not that 'unhappy' with the upper. Our handshake deal at the time did include me coming back to meet him and trade him straight across, my smith for his complete lower that was pictured. It works out if I don't go and trade him just fine. I would have been up a creek without a paddle on this IF he would have been able to transfer the two guns, but as luck would have, he didn't have a current id and they couldn't do the transfer so I left with my Smitty and he left with the complete lower. My Smith is probably worth $200 more than his lower. However, I gave him cash and ammo and the promise of returning to finish what we had agreed to trade. The rest, I already typed in OP. I guess I just wanted confirmation from some of this community that I wasn't out of line with being put off by this, and it would seem that people around here agree.

[madbretbeyondthunderdome]

No such thing. It might have been a upper receiver from a Colt, without the Colt M4 barrel, Without the Colt M4 hand guards and some added rails but thats not a Colt M4 upper.... not even close. Now you say the upper by itself isnt even a Colt.

So can I promise to sell you the Golden Gate Bridge for $100 and hand you a wooden stick?

Drop out of the "extra" deal.

Correct. The upper is a DSA with M4 feed ramps. The barrel wasn't advertised as Colt nor did I think it was. But the upper receiver was supposed to be a Colt. Agreed that the extra deal is null and void, unless, he is looking to put some $$ back in my pocket...

[tileguy]

the seller might have been told that it was a colt upper when he bought it and never found out it wasnt, so if he is under the impression that its colt and now that its been in your possession and you are saying its not and want to not do the deal you see were iam going? i think since you started the deal you might need to finish it and learn from it. iam saying in a nice way dont mean to sound assy. good luck

[Rob454]

d i think since you started the deal you might need to finish it and learn from it.

Sorry but why should he hold up his end of the bargain? Thats no different than someone telling you Ill sell you this brand new ferrari with all new parts tires and rims. When you get there you find its a corvette with bald tires and needs new interior.

I would tell the other guy that unless he can produce the exact thing that he supposedly was trading me for the deal is off and you want your stuff back. Screw the BS of well maybe you will be happy with it, or if it shoots straight keep it or sell it and get something else, its partly your fault so deal with it. Thats BS. I bet the monetary value of what you supposedly were getting and the monetary value of what you got is probably a good difference and the other guy should make up the difference at least.

Would all you guys go to a tire shop and ask for BF goodrich tires and the shop guy decides to install Kumhos for the same price but you will be ok with that after all its still a tire right? I bet you would scream bloody murder.

[SocomM4]

You can get a DPMS complete rifle for 700 bucks.

Isnt there a big C on a colt receiver? The pics dont even show a CH/BCG in the rifle,the 65 dollar lower(not the AP isnt pretty good and yes i know.)
isnt a plus,and do i spy a fake stock, as vltor pins the little nut on the lock pin,doesnt leave so much exposed .
.the grip isnt a miad its a MOE ,same with TG.


All in all i see a cheap ar.

[Stormfeather]

Philthy209 is a stand up guy, I cant imagine him trying to lead someone wrong here. I would advise you to contact him first, and see what he has to say before throwing it out there for everyone to see. If you dont believe it is what was advertised, then say so.