Concealed Carry Cop Killers - VPC video

[Librarian]

Why would it be COP bashing to state "Since 2007 X number of innocent citizens have been accidentally/mistakenly shot by LEOs. There are 7 million CCW holders and only 800K LEOs, that means you are X times more likely to be mistakenly shot by a LEO than a LEO is to be shot by a CCW holder. Then flash some pictures of cute kids and teens and old people who were mistakenly shot.

It might not be (but I don't think we have the 'innocent citizens' statistic available).

Numbers, presented in context but without comment, probably would not be 'bashing'.

It might be possible to make the argument

• antis want only government officials (e.g. LEO of whatever organization) to be armed
• here's A, the per-capita shoot/wound data for government officials
• here's B, the per-capita shoot/wound data for LTC
• B < A
• Conclusion: 'official blessing' does not correlate with safer performance. (We don't know why this is true, just that it is.) The 'anti' position supports less safe conditions.

Argued that way, it directs against the anti position, not the government officials.

(This isn't generalizing from some people to all all people - it reports the number of incidents of a type observed for a time in two selected populations.)

[RazzB7]

What about the "wound data" per driver's license? I'm sure cars kill more people PER DAY than LTC holders per year.

[safewaysecurity]

What about the "wound data" per driver's license? I'm sure cars kill more people PER DAY than LTC holders per year.ever

fixed

[Mr.1904]

11 since 2007?

Not necessarily the best case against CCW/LTC.

Regardless RIP to the officers.

[Untamed1972]

See here, this is the basis for my belief as you would be making a negative statement about cops in general rather than discussing only specific incidents:



Even if the forum owner gave you the OK for this particular purpose, I'm not so sure it would be a good tactic anyway. Our adversaries are the antis, not cops. The antis might be baiting us into doing something like that so that we would look bad in the eyes of the general public.

The video claims it makes a person dangerous....a cop killer.....to give them a permit to CCW. Why not show that it is statistically more dangerous to give a person a gun and badge? Thats not making generalizations.......it's just stating a statistical fact.

Of course I know stats can always be skewed. The point more importantly would be to show the obsurdity of the anti's statements.

[Librarian]

The video claims it makes a person dangerous....a cop killer.....to give them a permit to CCW. Why not show that it is statistically more dangerous to give a person a gun and badge? Thats not making generalizations.......it's just stating a statistical fact.

Because neither statement is accurate.

As written above, the implied cause is either the gun or the gun and the badge - and we know neither causes the counted incidents.

[GrizzlyGuy]

The video claims it makes a person dangerous....a cop killer.....to give them a permit to CCW. Why not show that it is statistically more dangerous to give a person a gun and badge? Thats not making generalizations.......it's just stating a statistical fact.

Of course I know stats can always be skewed. The point more importantly would be to show the obsurdity of the anti's statements.

I have no doubt about that statistical fact and yes, the antis' statements are certainly absurd. However, you need to consider who your audience is. I assume it is the general public and not just us 'liberty lovin' gun nuts'.

Although the public confidence in the police has been declining for years, it is still relatively high. Producing a video that puts cops in a negative light (that statistical fact is still a negative light on them) won't go over very well out in the general public. I think that the typical reaction would be 'hey, why are the gun guys rubbing our respected cops' faces in the poop?'. They'll get stuck on that emotion-based reaction and not get the actual point that you are trying to make.

I can't think of who it would be, but you need a different 'fall guy' for the story. It's too bad that lawyers and congress-critters aren't the ones out shooting innocent people, nobody likes them.

[Cali-Shooter]

VPCvideos, the youtube account, has 66 subscribers. And among them, some of the users have gun pictures in their avatars or have names like "1911GreatestofThemAll." I think they have a good audience base, don't you think?

[call-in]

So we calculated that one in a million ccw holders killed a cop, instead of figuring out how many civilians are killed by leo, shouldn't we figure out how many adult non-ccw-holding person have killed a cop? Is that number higher than one in a million? I totally don't know what that number is but I suspect it would be close to one in a million also.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Be sure to go dislike their Youtube video.

[m98]

These video's are emotional powerful, and cater to the crowds of under thinkers in society.

Yet that fact makes them extremely politically powerful...

I want to try my hand at this propoganda war. Who is with me?

The Sheeples of kommifornia would be all over this propaganda vid if it was put on the air by the media. It will be an uphill battle for us as there are just wayyyyyy too many shheeeeeps infested in this state. That's why its always banned this bann that but it doesnt solve anything other than to make the sheeps feel safer.

[Untamed1972]

So we calculated that one in a million ccw holders killed a cop, instead of figuring out how many civilians are killed by leo, shouldn't we figure out how many adult non-ccw-holding person have killed a cop? Is that number higher than one in a million? I totally don't know what that number is but I suspect it would be close to one in a million also.

Probably not because for the last 10yrs or more the number of LEOs that die on duty every year is between about 150-175 on avg. That includes things like heart attacks on the job, and death due to vehicle accident. More LEOs die every year from traffic fatality then from being shot. So the number of LEOs every year that die from being shot are usally between 30-50.

So what's 300,000,000 / 30? Comes out to like 1 in 10 million. That's for total population. Not sure what the ratio of adults to minors is. If you cut the population in half to 150,000,000 for just adults it like 1 in 5 million. But this is PER YEAR.

But also consider that "1 in million" number for CCW holders was based on 11 shootings span of 4 years. So what does that do to the number of CCW cop killers PER YEAR?

[call-in]

But also consider that "1 in million" number for CCW holders was based on 11 shootings span of 4 years. So what does that do to the number of CCW cop killers PER YEAR?

So that would be 1-in-a-million per four years, or .25-in-a-million/year for ccw holding cop killer. 1-in-5million translates to .2-in-a-million non-ccw holding cop killers

Depending on where one stands, one could say that ccw holders are significantly more likely to kill cops then their non-ccw holding couterpart (25% more), or .05-in-a-million is so infinitesimal a figure to matter. Personally, considering the data points are too sparse, I believe the difference between the two figures are too small to draw a conclusion.

[safewaysecurity]

Is there a statistic on how many cops die from other cops?

[Untamed1972]

So that would be 1-in-a-million per four years, or .25-in-a-million/year for ccw holding cop killer. 1-in-5million translates to .2-in-a-million non-ccw holding cop killers

Depending on where one stands, one could say that ccw holders are significantly more likely to kill cops then their non-ccw holding couterpart (25% more), or .05-in-a-million is so infinitesimal a figure to matter. Personally, considering the data points are too sparse, I believe the difference between the two figures are too small to draw a conclusion.

The other issue is, in many of those CCW's who shot COPs their CCW had nothing to do with the shooting anyway. So they might as well say "these 11 people had driver's licenses and ended up shooting COPs so giving ppl DLs makes them into COP killers."

They trying to tie together unrelated things to make a point to serve their agenda.

Maybe they should do a study of what those CCW holders ate that morning and try to help out the anti-egg lobby by claiming that they all had eaten eggs that morning and so eggs make people kill COPs?